Backache and then dies

[Wafflesandcrepes]

My mum had an atrocious backache, which started on 23 December. She went to the GP twice between 26 December and 2 January and was prescribed painkillers and physio sessions.

She died on Friday, at home, in atrocious pain. Mum lived in France. There will be no autopsy unless I ask for one. Emergency services said her heart stopped (thanks!) and left.

Are there any GPs or health professionals out there who could tell me how the NHS would approach things when a 76-year-old lady presents with a mysterious and extremely painful backache which started for no obvious reason (no fall, no exercice, no heavy lifting), doesn’t respond to painkillers and seem to spread to shoulders and arms? My mum has had a stroke in the past and was on blood thinners and medication for cholesterol.

I’m not trying to get anyone in trouble. I just want to understand and make sure we learn from what happened to her.

Thank you.

Did you speak directly with someone medically trained that said they didn’t know why she died, or was it relayed to you through family members?

I think I would want to know just to get an answer.
If it was a freak thing then at least you would know, or hereditary.
It must be awfully hard for you though op.

Oh op I am so sorry for your loss

I would have to go down the post-mortem route for my own grief process mostly.

Would that be done here or in France?

This sounds like what happened to a close relative of mine - it was kidney disease and subsequent blood issue which the kidneys couldn't fix. They had bad back pain (lower back)

Maybe aortic dissection.
Hopefully post mortem can give you the answers you need

I’m so very sorry for your loss OP.
FIL had sore back for months and gp gave various painkillers. Woke up one morning paralysed and died within a few days. Was liver cancer.
Step mum had stomach ache and back ache, collapsed at home, in hospital said it was a kidney infection that had given her sepsis and she was dead within 3 days.
a post mortem would perhaps give you some answers.

I am so sorry for your loss OP. My father died suddenly in February last year, his only symptom had been backache for a few days. He put it down to just getting older. The post mortem showed it was an aortic rupture, which I know a lot of people have alluded to.

PM had to happen as it was in UK and sudden death at home but if you can request one then do as I don't know why but I felt much better for knowing what had happened.

I’m sorry, OP, it must be an awful shock for you. I would probably ask for a post mortem as it may help you to make sense of it. I think it’s hard to grieve if you don’t understand what happened.

I'm so sorry about your mum. 💐

I experienced something similar with a family member last year but it was over months not days. They didn't really figure out what was going on until about a month before they died. In their case it was cancer.

I'd want to know just in case it was genetic and I was at risk.

So sorry for your loss @Wafflesandcrepes 💐

My mums friend had cancer in her spine which I believe was incredibly painful, and I think it started quickly and she died rather suddenly from it. But, we are all speculating so if you can ask for an autopsy then I would.

I think knowing what caused it will help with the grieving process and getting some sort of closure. I wouldn’t like to be left wondering.
So sorry for your loss 💐

Personally, I don't see the need to know what caused her death (unless you have some very real concern of foul play, which doesn't sound like the case).

Her death is sad, and the initial shock is greater if it is unexpected, but I don't see what you can gain from investigation and there could be a lot to "lose" in terms of calling for an autopsy, stress of waiting etc etc

Condolences on the sudden loss of your lovely mum. Personally, I would ask for a post-mortem, for peace of mind, if nothing else. Sudden onset severe back pain can indicate something is seriously amiss, and it may give you comfort to know that she would have passed away regardless, even if the cause had been identified at the beginning.

May she rest in peace, and sending you love and light in this time of grief.

I'm so sorry..we lost our mam suddenly on the 27th december and her cause of Death was her heart stopping.

Sending you so much love it's all so horrible.

I'm sorry about your loss, what a shock for you.

Her previous history of stroke and needing blood thinners and cholesterol medication suggests higher risk of heart problems.

Acute shoulder and/or back pain accompanied by pain in one or both arms are classic symptoms of heart attack in women. If she told the DR all of those symptoms I'm surprised they didn't pick that up.

It does sound as if the paramedic's comment could be correct.

The paramedics comment is DEFINITELY correct, as we all ultimately die from the heart stopping. Everyone dies from a cardiac arrest, everyone. Even those people who had cancer or a car accident or a heart attack (myocardial infarction) or a stroke.

What the OP seeks to understand is what lead it to stop for her Mum. You are possibly right about it being an atypical presentation of an MI. Also possible that those suggesting an AAA or aortic Dissection are correct too.

OP, it’s worth asking the authorities in her part of France if they are able to offer non-invasive PM - this is done by CT, with fluoroscopy to illuminate the blood vessels, there is just two small cuts to access the coronary arteries for this. In 90% of cases a cause of death is identified through non-invasive PM. I’m sorry but I just have no idea about the likelihood of this being available in France.

I was going to suggest a AAA or dissection as mentioned by PP.
Were you with her? Sorry this happened

Thank you so much for all your replies and messages of condolences.

I’ve been in contact with her GP practice. As requested, they outlined the process to follow to obtain her medical file. It hurt that they didn’t offer any messages of condolences whatsoever. Not even a brief “sorry to hear.”

I hadn’t thought of aortic rupture but I’ve now started looking into it and it sounds very likely. I was initially thinking of deep vein thrombosis with the clot perhaps lodging itself in the pelvis for a while, causing the sudden back pain, before travelling to her lung. Interestingly, the back pain went away - out of the blue - on Thursday, the day before she died. She even did some cleaning that day. Little did she know it was the calm before the storm. Mum will probably have put it down to the strong painkillers she had been given.

I wasn’t with her when she died. My dad was. He said it was incredibly painful. She was screaming. She curled up on the floor and he said her body was so tight and tense he couldn’t get her to relax and lie down flat.

Neither dad nor I have the strength to ask for an autopsy, I don’t think, although the non-invasive one, if easier to obtain, is a good idea. I’ll look into this today.

Thank you again and sorry to hear about your own losses. Life can be so tough.

That’s what I thought too, Aortic aneurysm can be present for years before it becomes fatal, becomes large and ruptures. Surely this is an unexpected/unexplained death that needs a PM.

Sending you and your Dad love, @WWafflesandcrepes

Thanks for sharing an update. It sounds like it was very traumatic and my heart goes out to your dad. Thinking of you and your family

I thought I’d update this thread. We ended up not requesting an autopsy as it was too complicated and we wanted my poor mum to be laid to rest. I now wish we had as the lack of medical knowledge, empathy and ethics I have now encountered from the medical staff who looked after her (or didn’t look after her) in my own country is staggering and worrying.

Thank you to the doctors who came on this thread and flagged the possibility of an aortic disease. I’ve now gone through her medical files and saw that her abdominal aorta was calcified - a huge red flag - and she was overdue on her next check up."

Take care.

Happened to a woman I worked with
it was originally put down a sciatica
she was backwards and forwards to doctors never had mri had endless physio and pain killers apparently they had to do all this before they would scan her
after 9 months they finally scanned her she was riddled with cancer they primary was in her spine it’d gone to her lungs and brain
she died 2months later

Hi @Wafflesandcrepes I'm sorry to read this - I just wanted to reach out. My mum died suddenly in 2021 of an aortic aneurysm. The symptoms were sudden and sound similar to your description here. I do hope you're feeling closer to having answers. I'm sorry for your loss and happy to PM if you would like.

So sorry op 💐