foot and mouth

[Kia]

Hey Tigger! My street cred went up miles today when I was able to talk knowledgably about foot and mouth to a man in the animal feed business. I could almost SEE the thoughts over the phone - how does an executive tart know about the mouth ulcers etc?! Many thanks, I couldn't have done it without you! i was almost an honorary man for a few moments!!

Tigger my whole office wants a report on how you are!! Aside from the major problems, as Joey in Friends would say 'how YOU doin'?!

We's doin cushti dalin!!!!!!!!!, we are managing ok just now, got 8 tonnes of feeding in on friday, so no strange vehicles will be up our road. Eldest gets her shoes disinfected before she goes to school and when she comes home, and we have a bed of straw down at the end of our road soaked in disinfectant. The outbreak in our area seems to be more in Dumfrieshire end of our district, although it has come as far as Twynholm and we know the farmer there who had to destroy his sheep some 4000 and his pedigree herd of Belted Galloway cows, and the breeding of the cows dates back some 200 years, he is totally distraught, he got it through buying lambs at Longtown market taking them to the slaughterhouse and 3 not being good enough to kill, he brought them home and put them among his own sheep. Although his stock showed no signs of F & M they were a huge risk. We have started lambing our last lot of ewes and we have no green fields to move these sheep to, as there is a movement restriction on at the moment until 16th march, anmials for slaughter can be moved under a very strict licence. My brother in law has prime cattle for slaughter, before the F & M blew up he was offered £1.84 per kilo dead weight for these, today he was offered £1.05, 79p less, do these supermarkets think we are zipped up the back of our heads?, I really think they are trying to kick us even harder when we are down. The Rural Stress Helpline cannot cope with the call, the Samaritans are the same, I admire these people the strength they show to someone who is ready to give it all up is immense. I think the aid package for farmers will come into effect within the next 10 days, although the money we are getting was due from Europe anyway, if Mr Blair hadn't used it they would have given it to another European country at the end of April!, the money has been there for over 18 months and he wouldn't give the farmers it. I do have my thoughts every day, and hope and keep everything crossed it comes no further than it has, saying that Twynholm is only 30 miles away from us. many people have asked me what F & M is, it is blisters in the mouth and on the feet, the animal will eventually not be able to stand and thus starve, they can live afer it, but, they are skeletons and it would be cruel to keep them living. I have tried to keep my sense of humour throught this and hope I do keep it!!.

Well dahlin as Delboy would say, everythings cushti, luvlyjubbly and I'll say bonjour for now!!

Thanks Kia for showing an interest.

Tigger - I heard on the radio today that supermarket meat prices were expected to go up by around 30% - someone is seriously ripping you guys off - who is it?

Why do some of you seem to think that "organic" beef will not have diseases? Growing beef "organically" will not prevent foot & mouth or any other myriad of livestock diseases. In fact, (at least in Australia and I'm lead to believe these are international regulations) "organic" beef means that animals are not allowed to receive any chemical treatments. This includes drenches for worms and liver fluke, treatment for lice and other ectoparasites and vaccination against clostridial disease and the like. Unless "organic" beef is produced in appropriate regions (by this I mean dry and relatively worm-free etc) the animals will suffer more than their "non-organic" counterparts that do receive treatment. "Organic" food production is not designed for the wellbeing of the animals but for the benefit of the consumer who wants to encounter fewer chemicals in the food they eat!

PS My husband has been fortunate enough to spend a great deal of time in Thailand working with the Thai people in setting up a beef industry. By all accounts, they look after their animals very well indeed!

Chelle, I'm not sure that people believe that organic meat will be free from those diseases which naturally affect animals just that organic and free range normally go hand in hand with better conditions for the animals. The quality of feed is onbviously a major factor in improving the taste of meat as is the animals lower stress levels. In any case, BSE would have been avoided if organic farming methods had been in place.

As regards Thailand, maybe your husband was fortunate in the farms he saw. In June 2000, Thailand lodged an official objection to the EU's attempts to link the issue of animal welfare with processing, production and regulatory regulations.

On reflection, most of the problems in Thailand seem to be centre on the poultry industry so it could well be different for beef.

Chelle, to echo Croppy's comments, those of us who choose organic meat do so because of the improved animal husbandry and better diet the animals are given. The current outbreak of F&M in the UK is believed to have been caused by contaminated meat being fed to pigs in swill. An organic diet would have meant those pigs would not have been given this stuff.
Perhaps it's easier for us to cop out regarding worming treatments etc in our climate but I don't agree that the long-standing, established organic meat producers in the UK - such as Luddesdown in Kent and Heal's Farm in Devon, there are many more - are primarily concerned with pandering to the customer. Unless you call producing better-tasting, properly butchered and hung meat pandering to us.
Could it be that the better standards of living generally and the space to farm less intensively in Australia means that your animals are better treated at the baseline? Bad things happen here on some farms and our food industry's emphasis on cheapness and maximising profit contrasts with what I hear about Australian quality produce (friends in Perth who think our salads, fish, meat etc are atrocious...)

As an Aussie but long term resident here (and secret Anglophile), I am a huge fan of the taste and quality of free range British lamb and beef. In my personal view, it is amongst the best in the world but of course, can be around 3 -4x more expensive than meat at home. Marina, I think your friends are dead right about the salads and as for the fish, there is absolutely no comparison!.
But there are a lot of other things here which are superlative namely yoghurts, cheeses and so on.

I always feed my Ozzie friends and relatives spring lamb here when it is available and the best organic beef I can lay my hands on and they are always amazed at how excellent it is. In my 11 years here I am amazed at the transformation in British supermarkets and the quality of food in general. Sure, there is an awful long way to go but a lot of progress has been made.

As an aisde, the A$ is almost at a record low so for those of you who want a cheap holiday and to eat yourselves silly on fantastic food at low prices - now is the time to go!!. Qantas offering flights for jusr £479.00.....

Tigger, can I ask you what is probably a very silly Foot and Mouth question please? I can't get my head around how some of the measures that are being taken to prevent the disease spreading are going far enough, and some seem to be contradictory and inconsistent. I've read that the disease is airborn, I've seen pictures of lorries driving through disinfected straw, but wouldn't the disease be 'stuck' to the sides of the vehicle as well? In the drivers hair? Can birds transmit it? It seems weird that the rugby and racing were cancelled, but all the football carried on? I've read and heard so much about it that it has all become very confusing and hard to take in. I really hope that all goes well for you and yours.

Chelle, if an organic animal shows signs of worm infestation,you can give a worm dose after the animal has been inspected by a Vet and the drugs given to the farmer. They are not given wormers and vaccinations as the norm like other animals on farm, i.e. sheep are dosed every 6 weeks during the summer to stop worm infestation and the sheep/lambs scittering. Antibiotics are used in Organic farms on cattle/sheep/pigs and poultry, after they have been inspected by a Vet and the drugs given by the vet at the correct dosage for the individual animals. To let an animal go untreated with liver fluke or lungworm would be cruel, as lungworm damages the lungs and liver fluke eventually stops the liver working.

Tom, to answer your question, the Supermarkets have said today that they told their buyers to offer the same price to farmers now, as they were doing before the F & M broke out. Rubbish they are offering at least 25% less per kilo now deadweight for a bullock or heifer hanging up, erady to go on the supermarket shelves. They are in theory holding a gun at some prime stock farmers heads, they know they need the money so we'll screw them down on the price we give them. These supermarkets are going to put the price of meat up, why?, it is imported where does it come from, what age is it, has it had the spinal cord removed, and as has been seen some imported meat is coming into this country with the spinal cord still in. Another issue, do these other countries adhere to the strict welfare and conditions whilst rearing their stock, some sows are still tied in sow stalls, these have been banned here for 2 years now. We have quality assurance in this country for a reason, to ensure stock is well looked after from birth to the table. Would this imported meat be clean, by this I mean belly and key areas of the body clipped before slaughter, to reduce the roisk of e coli 157, being the main strain.

Paula1, F & M, hopefully I can answer your questions. Birds can carry Foot and Mouth, yes it can be carried on the sides of vehicles, but disnfecting the vehicle along with the wheels should lessen the risk of the disease spreading. Clothing, the following comes from a letter we received from SNFU, "If possible footwear and clothing used on farm should not leave the premises. If it is not possible, footwear and exterior waterproof clothing should be dipped/washed with disinfectant" they also asy this "Limit contact with other peoples livestock and other keepers of livestock. Should you have contact with them, before you go anywhere near your own animals, disinfect your footwear, change your clothes, and wash yourself with hot water and soap, including your hair, and wash clothes. Any item or object that may have had contact with the disease must also be disinfected".

MAFF have a website that has official guidelines and information it is at:-

www.maff.gov.uk/animalh/diseases

Suew, the hogget your MIL talked about is a sheep that is a year old or more, as it has 2 broad teeth up. We call it Mutton in GB, cannot eat it myself, it is to strong in taste for me, but my granparents liked it more than lamb. Quite a lot of the cattle breeds in Australia are either Aberdeen Angus or Hereford, am I right?, friends moved there a few years back, she was from Oz and her parents had Angus and Hereford cattle, is another breed called a Brahmen (hope the spelling is correct).

Tigger - I would be delighted to be able to source meat directly from the farmer, but am unsure how to go about it. My mum always used to by 1/2 lamb/pig etc which was just delivered chopped up, and then we had to bag it and freeze it. I suspect this is no longer an option due to the closure of most of the small abbattoirs. I would love to be able to get this delivered, so if you manage to get anywhere let us know - I'm not alone it wanting to cut out the middlemen (supermarkets) who seem to be predominantly interested in drilling the farmers down as much as possible. From a selfish point of view, I want my children to grow up in a country where they can still see working farms, and gain an appreciation of the seasons.

SueW, Foodferry currently offering organic beef fillet for £32.50 a kilo (A$91 at today's exchange rate!!) and mince at £9.00 a kilo.... My brother from Melbourne is staying with me at the mo and refusing to touch any beef for fear of CJD!

Suew, I am still here, just very dumbfoundered with the whole situation. We are at present making arrangements with MAFF, our own vet and the Intervention Board to get our ewe hoggs taken away into the Welfare Scheme, because we can't get them moved to any grazing. If we were to move them home (about 500 yards!) we have to get a licence and then we cannot move them for 21 days, there is nowhere to keep them as the fields are like the Sahara Desert one day and a bloody Paddy field the next!. We also are having to put some of our fattening bulls away as they cannot be housed with bullocks as there is no grazing for them either. Very depressing situation at the moment, we are losing our young stock of ewes for next years lambing, we will have to keep some of this years charollais cross ewe lambs to replace them, which means less money coming in. Actually we saw a pile of cows, sheep etc being made ready for burning last sunday, and when we came back past at night the fire was well alight. This was through in Dumfries, we were on our way to Edinburgh for a family bun worry!! Unfortunately husband had a fair amount of gin and thought he was a Politician!, and really livened up the conversation, much to my mothers horror,, but as I say he is beyond redemption and caring. I am now living on tenderhooks as we await the onslaught of Polticians canvassing, may the good lord help the first Labour man/woman to come up our farm road and try and get oh happinesses vote!, more likely a left hook followed by a profuse amount of swearing. How are things in the land of OZ and were you affected by the recent flooding?

Tigger, I am so sorry to hear your new it must be awful.
Thinking of you and your family
Kate

Tigger, sorry to sound dim - the "Welfare scheme"? Does this mean they can move your sheep to safe grazing away from the outbreaks? I hope it helps in the long term. Whatever, it sounds grim right now. You will be pleased to know that in our local Waitrose this weekend they had managed to source British lamb, pork and beef (checked for tractor logos) and we bought a bit of each. Continuing to think of you.

Marina, the Welfare Scheme is where they remove the animals sheep and our young bulls, take them to a slaughter house and then they go to a rendering plant, they don't even go for Human consumption. I am at my wits end regarding this, MAFF come and put an endelible spray mark on the sheep and the cattle have a clip mark put on them. Guess who won't be around on that day!, I never thought that in my time of farming and I'm nearly 31 now that I would be completely shattered and my faith in farming knocked out of me, my husband and I cannot see how much of the farming community and some rural businesses will recover from this. If anyone watched Panorama last night it was an absoloute disgrace, I have emailed them voicing my absoloute disgust at their programme. Many people are saying that the compensation the farmers who have had F & M will get is to high. Many of these farmers will get the money and the banks will say thank you very much, but we're not letting you have another overdraft and keep the money. I must praise the work of the Samaritans, I have spoken to several people who have been in contact with them and the support they have received and financial counselling has been tremendous, they have pointed people in the right direction for financial aid, mainly for household and children, e.g food and clothing. We don't know when the markets will open up again, and our lambs that were born in January may go the same way as our hoggs into the Welfare Scheme, as we cannot send animals for slaughter any further than the Firth of Clyde, and I don't think there is a slaughter house near us that kills lambs, many of them just kill cattle.

By the way, Waitrose has been given a big thumbs up by the Farmers Weekly for their support of British Produce, our local Safeway was stocking Irish beef and after speaking to one of the tellers the other day she told us that many of the customers would not buy it, this is a good sign as it shows that the general shopper is starting to support our own produce. Another thing, we stopped at a Welcome Break last sunday for our tea, and I asked where the beef came from, the woman said Morcambe, not at all after she went and checked it had been packed in Morcambe but came from Argentina!, husband nearly had a canary on the spot so we had the fish and left a comment in the comments book.

Tigger, for what its worth, Epsom had its first farmer's market since F&M started,yesterday and it was packed. There were also many more stalls, and the farmers were pleased to have sold out of most products(especially sausages!). However, I can't work out how they get their animals slaughtered in the first place, when you're having so much difficulty. Is it just pot luck whether you have a suitable abbatoir nearby?

Yes Lil it is just pot luck, our nearest abattoir only kills cattle, they haven't got the killing line going yet for sheep. In fact they were meaning to start the week after the F & M broke out and it is run by Buccleuch Meats. The farmers who sold meat at the local market near you would get a licence to get the animal to the abattoir and then it would be cut up by a butcher, but the animal would only travel with other animals from the same place or on its own, as we cannot put animals from several farms on the one lorry. Good to hear that it was up and running.

Oh Tigger, what can I say. It doesn't sound like anyone's "well" fare, much. I started to watch the Panorama programme but it did not seem even to me to be portraying what you and others are having to cope with right now. We will be seeing for ourselves to some extent when we visit my parents for a week over Easter. They live near Cockermouth, which is between the Lake District National Park and the worst of the Cumbrian outbreak. They say there are a lot of people in great distress up there.
I did e-mail my MP to express my concerns about how the government is handling the crisis but have not had a reply yet.