Alcohol reduction without counselling, can it work?

[wheredowegofromhere]

DS?s father is currently trying to reduce his alcohol consumption from 100 units to 60 and then to a more reasonable 40 over the next few 4 weeks. His gp seems to be satisfied that he can do this without any counselling.

I?m concerned that if he doesn?t look into the reasons for his drinking and what triggers the binges, long term progress will be difficult if not impossible.

My first reaction is that it would take a very strong person to achieve this on their own and that if he is refusing counselling than he?s still in denial about his drinking, therefore not ready to face the illness and recover from it.

I agree. I think he does need counselling. Why don't you post this on the recovering alcoholics thread??

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/138/431381

Shaniece, actually I was but I didn't want to thread crash!

Do you have any experience yourself of reduction and or counselling?

I have no experience myself, although over Christmas I reckon i was getting through a bottle of wine a night . Cut down now.

I am sure they won't mind you asking the question of the other thread. Go on, ask them. They can give you some sound advice.

Kokeshi will probably be on the other thread later ,but i would say that not everyone needs counselling , Support yes . Has his drinking always been a problem or is it that his intake has gradually crept up to this amount ? TBH until he trys reducing it might be difficult to tell if he needs more professional support . If he struggles in the first week ,then he should go back to his GP and ask for more organised support .Did he decide to tackle his drinking or was this instigated by the GP ? As i said I think there are so many factors that decide whether a person needs counselling ,including personality and personal choice . Do let us know how he gets on though ,I am rooting for him

sorry not sure if i read your thread correctly ,has he been offered counselling and refused it ?

If he has emotional reasons fordrinking and he doesn't tackle those he will simply be the same person in every way apart from he will be drinking less.It is called a dry drunk.One of my oldests friends dads did this over 40 yrs ago when his abusive and manipulative behaviour made her mum threaten to leave him.H e decided that day he would never touch another drink but didn't have counselling and even todday he is bitter miserable and unhappy

Hi I've posted a reply on the drinking thread- but noddy makes a very good point.

A bit of background info: we?re separating and I mentioned my concerns regarding him looking after DS (22 months) if he didn?t address his alcohol consumption. For the first time in his life he has been seeing his gp to discuss alcohol and potential depression. Obviously, I do not know exactly what he has told her and what she said. He must realises that no judge is going to allow shared care if he carries on drinking so has started a reduction programme. He has said that he didn?t ?believe? in going to AA and did not need counselling ? I don?t know if it was offered to him.

He has been drinking heavily for years and let it control his life (huge debts, tense family relationships, very few friends).

If you want more info, I?m here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/7/410292?stamp=080124224715

A dry drunk doesn?t sound very nice, does it?

HI wdwgfh,

How are you? I understand your concerns obviously. The things with alcohol problems is that every single person is different. There isn't a 'typical' alcoholic'. What I would say though, is that it's great that he's showing initiative and doing this himself, however I'd be worried that it will be really hard to maintain it. For me, drinking wasn't just the physical addiction, it was the emotional reasons and my inability to cope with life on life's terms that kept taking me back. Most problem drinkers will relapse if they don't have ongoing support, and very few are able to give up totally on their own without some form of support. Some, but very few.

I go to AA even though I haven't drank in quite some time because I need to keep addressing the issues that I would have drank on. It's quite a complex problem and never as simple as just giving it up, as much as we'd like to believe it. I do a 12 step programme, because it helps me to cope with life on life's terms, something I was unable to do before.

Obviously I can only speak for myself and what I've seen around me, but it's so much easier when you have outside ongoing support. This is a difficult one for you, obviously - and I guess ultimately - you must your your knowledge and judgement in this situation. Personally, I wouldn't forge ahead too quickly thinking he'll be 'cured'. None of us are. I guess the only advice I can give to you is bide your time, look after yourself and your family. Don't rush into any huge changes and make sure that he continues to prove himself to you. Most problem drinkers go through a kinda journey of self-discovery, which unfortunately can involve lapsing and relapsing. Protect yourself first and foremost. Get to Al-Anon and make sure your needs are met and you are supported.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not writing your DH off, I'd just be careful not to put all your eggs on one basket just yet. You're right to be cautious. You're more than welcome on the thread anytime! No-one's gatecrashing, if we can help in any way, we certainly will try.

I wish you and your family well.

sorry, this is kokeshi with a name change!

Thanks Kokeshi. I?m very concerned that this might be a one trick pony for him to achieve shared care for DS on 50:50 basis and that he doesn?t want to see further than that. Within that logic there is no need for him to delve any deeper and look into his emotional reactions. And without external help or counselling he could, if he were to achieve reduction, have a major relapse whilst caring for DS.

I don't think you should discount your gut feelings on this one. We alcoholics are very good at lying to ourselves, and subsequently have no problem convincing others too...including medical professionals.

What do you think it the solution to this?

What does your DS's dad drink? Does he drink only in the evening or in the day too??

Am I right in saying that there are 12 units in bottle of wine?? If there is then that would equal 84 units right . Omg i was drinking that over christmas in a week. only drinking 2 bottles a week now. Friday and Sat only.

It has little to do with volume or what time of the day you drink and everything thing to do with the inpact on yuor life and the ability to be moderate.

Shaniece, you?re too generous! a bottle of wine at 13% is just under 10 units. He mainly drinks in the evenings and at weekends, mainly cider, wine and beers. He doesn?t buy spirits but when the rare occasions there?ve been some in the home it didn?t? last long. Last time it was a 500ml bottle of vodka in one evening, straight.

But as noddy says it?s not necessary relevant

My guts feelings is that there?s very little difference between this attempt at reduction and the countless failed attempts at moderating from the past.

I don?t believe that seeing his gp every 2 weeks is enough support for him. I don?t know if it?s the solution but I would feel a lot more comfortable if he was talking about sobriety and asking to be referred to one of the local NHS programmes.

He only wants to achieve a normal consumption, around 20 units, and does not consider not drinking at all. And I fear it?s doomed to failure.

I've just caught up with your other thread wdwgfh, and considering he has had many failed attempts in the past, I really can't see this are being any different. Sorry.

We're always told in AA: if nothing changes, nothing changes.

Real recovery from an addiction to alcohol is a hard, daily battle that requires utmost honesty and willingness to proceed. Any attempts to manipulate it to our own ends will just land us back in the same place. Drunk.

I know recovering alcoholics, friends of mine in AA, that drank way less than your husband does. You don't have to drink everyday or even every week to be an alcoholic, and it makes no difference if you wait until after 5pm either.

I am pretty sure if a person can go a week without alcohol, and drinks far less than the OPs DP then that would indicate the person is not an alcoholic.

Sounds like the OPs dp needs to break his bad habits.

Op try and get your dp to work out at the gym or go for a run instead in the evening and weekends, as this is when he feels the urge to drink. It worked for my mate. He used to drink 8 cans of stella a night and more on the weekends. He started going out every evening so he couldn't and wouldn't feel the urge to drink.

You're expressing my concerns in your own words Kokeshi.

For the sake of the argument, if he doesn't drink whilst looking after DS but drinks when DS is with me, then he is still an alcoholic.

And I'm really not comfortable with this.

Sorry Dave, that's categorically not true and it's a dangerous game of denial that alcoholics play trying to control drinking.

I have too much experience of this to think otherwise. I suggest you read wdwgfh's other thread and then come back and tell us if she can 'make him' do anything, much less deal with his drink problem.

Have a look here so see the problems in defining an alcoholic.

There is no such thing as an alcoholic who can control their drinking that is the point.If you need to control it you have a problem and the stereotype of teh shaking drunk in the gutter before breakfast is so far from the truth.

Gentle bump, I?m not quite ready to see this tread die yet!

If DS's dad doesn't drink whilst caring for DS, can I really argue against shared care?

Do I have to trust that he will have the control not to drink when DS is asleep?