Anybody know anything about sprains and fractures? Do I take dd to A@E?

[Boco]

Ok I know that it'll be me deciding and everything. But, I'm not sure. The nurse has left it to my parental instincts but they tend to not always work.

DD age 3 was at toddler group and the helper lady was swinging her around by her wrists and she suddenly started screaming. An hour later and she was still sobbing and wouldn't let go of it, any slight movement made her scream.

I took her to the drs and saw the nurse who managed to move it around and she can move all her fingers. She said that it's not obviously broken or dislocated, and is probably just a bad strain, but there are lots of little bones and one could be broken - but it was up to me as it may not be, and to decide by 3pm what i want to do. I have no car, dp would have to come home, find someone to look after dd1, it's 45 mins to hospital. Would go in a flash if i thought it was, of course, but i have no idea and she made it sound fairly unlikely.

So, my longwinded question is, swinging round, is it likely or possible to have fractured a little bone? How can I tell? Would a strain be this bad?

She's sitting very still with it on her lap and won't move it or let me touch it, and as i come into the room she says 'no, mummy, stay over there!!'.

Maybe because of the type of injury it was - being swung round, rather than a fall or contact with something else iykwim - he said he'd be looking for tearing or dislocation rather than fractures - and he said - well they all said, that they could feel no muscle tearing, and there's no swelling. I don't know. They seemed thorough and I felt reassured, but now i'm a at a bit of a loss as she's in our bed sat up with dp doing a constant upset grizzly noise and we can't move her without her getting very upset. Does seem a bit worse.

wotz is right - medically trained or not
poor little thing!
if no better tomorrow take her back for review
calpol tonight and good luck!

Ouch at 'twist snap!'. No, it was a toddler group, I was there, in the same room, I just wasn't watching the crazy volunteer when it happened - but she was playing ring a ring a roses with her - and the other kids had wondered off so she swung dd round by wrists. Often she plays throwing the children in the air and catching them, and once she did roll on a baby. She's very well meaning and adores all the children, she's just insanely rough to the point of - well, lets hope not twist snap!

A sprain can be this bad though, can't it? Can it? It can be moved in every direction, just very very painful.

If there really is NO swelling at all, it is unlikely to be a fracture isn't it?

Perhaps something was pulled? If she's still bad tomorrow you should take her back, it doesn't sound right. Once they put dd's elbow back, she really was fine.

DS1 twisted his ankle on holiday last year, and I made him carry on and hop up and down countless steps to beaches in Wales, and when we got back I took him to a&e and he'd evulsed a bone - a bit had splintered away - in his foot. I was an arse for not getting it seen, because now it's floating about in his foot, and they might have been able to set it.

Anyway, a small child in pain means something is wrong. If she's still in pain in the morning.

You are 100% she isn't tired and overwrought about having been in pain? Am not doubting - just my dd. . . .

Well this evening I put it down to tired and overwrought, but then she fell asleep straight away and woke up really sobbing an hour later and just won't settle, she's so tired and wants to go to sleep, but she can't seem to find a comfortable position - now is quiet - but propped up against dp in bed and when we try to move her she lets out a wail. So that's not right at all.

Dp thinks we just believe the doctors and that it must be a painful sprain and just keep dosing her and it'll be fine. Hope so too.

There is a little bit of swelling but not much - just looks a bit puffier than the other one. Ok, if she's like this tomorrow i'll take her again. It's annoying because when we were there they asked her if it hurt she said 'no thank you, can i see your dinosaurs?' and was charming and not at all distressed, and now you'd think her arm had fallen off.

No all the same colour. When it first happened i thought her fingers were turning blue, but that turned out to be paint.

I fell and twisted my knee in June. There was not much swelling but I was in complete agony, it was like toothache in my leg, I couldn't rest comfortably at all. I still have a bit of leg pain and they now think I bruised/damaged the nerve in my leg. Could she have hurt the nerve when she dislocated her arm? Not much treatment for it except painkillers and time though.

Boco just caught up and I am sorry to hear she was still in pain. Take her back to a children's A&E (hopes that's where you are). Get an Xray and another opinion, don't let them put her arm in plaster without an xray as it still might be dislocated and that would be the worst thing to do.

Dislocation in children can be easily missed.

As others have said if it was put back in place she would have no major discomfort. I am so sorry.

Also she may be so upset, she might tell the doctors it is OK as she won't want further pain and play it down when she is put on the spot.

I'm sure it is very possible to have a lot pain after a dislocation, even if it is put back, since the dislocation puts a lot of strain on the ligaments etc!

On DD's second birthday the same thing happened
The hospital was convinced it wasn't broken and sent us on our way with calpol and nurofen.

Took dd back next day and was fractured and ended up in a full cast for 4 weeks.

Oh dear really? Was it a fall though? She's with my step dad who is a paramedic and he's called and said he's looked too and thinks it's just a sprain (I know as a paramedic he's not exactly qualified, but just sees lots of injuries) - so he says he's not going to take her to the hospital. I just spoke to her, she's been dozing on my mums sofa, still won't move it or use it. He says sprains can be incredibly painful and that's what it is. I don't know, i hope so.

My DD was xrayed but nothing showed up so they did it again. Still nothing but it was clearly damaged.

I think it sounds like she needs a sling or a pot for it to rest so it can heal.

It was sort of a swing dd climbed on a little chair helper held her wrist to get her dond and dd sort of twisted. It twister the bone and caused a little split in the side of the bone.

The consultant in fracture clinic said that a way to tell if they need seeing is if they are asleep move the arm if they wake crying then it needs seeing.

Poor Little Boco

down

hi boco
poor thing

from the history it does sound like more of a pulled elbow than a fracture but anything is possible in little ones. the only point that worries me a bit is that when pulled elbows pop back in kids then use the arm again. i used to pop them back in all the time (its a very common injury) when i worked in a+e and the child would be using the arm again within half an hour. yes it will still be painful for a bit but should be getting better.

did the consultant prod all over her arm up to her shoulder? did she/does she cry when touched at all on her arm - esp when distracted. good idea about offering a sweet when the other hand is full - see if she will use that hand. do you think its any better at all?

if it really isn't getting any better then go back. you could always go and see your gp (not the nurse)

She won't use it at all, she's totally not forgetting about it when distracted. It seems to hurt in one specific point in her wrist. I think i'll take her to the doctor tomorrow like you say if it's still just as bad. Paramedic step dad has had a look and he thinks its a painful sprain too. I guess it's impossible to say without an xray so will see how she is later.

I would take her today if you could as it sounds like this has been going on for a few days. With my DD I had to take her back the next day if she wasn't better. I think it needs support.