Root canal, wisdom tooth & infection. Which one?!

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Ok so pre Xmas I had awful tooth ache. Dentist said I had an infection from a very large filling failing in my molar. Antibiotics then stage 1 surgery of root canal after that.

The X-ray noted my wisdom tooth is horizontal and impacted. I thought nothing of it but research seems to suggest my symptoms could well be from that instead.
Pain, bad taste, pus, red, throbbing etc. dentist adamant it’s the root canal tooth and now I’m on antibiotics for a second time.

I’m seeing her in a week and really think it’s my wisdom tooth. She told me she wouldn’t remove it and wouldn’t refer me until she was sure it wasnt the molar… 4 months minimum… step 2 due in March for root canal.

I’m so stressed out. Feel like I’m going through root canal for nothing just to rule it out.
Don’t know how to voice my concerns and can’t stand this pain much longer.

Oh ps 1st molar root canal tooth… 2nd molar has the pus coming from under it which is where my wisdom tooth is sideways. Not through the gum at all.

If it weren’t for Covid I would say go to a different dentist and get a second opinion. I did that when my long term dentist suddenly listed a whole load of expensive treatment including an extraction. Two years later the tooth is still in place.

What does the x-ray show? As i had extreme pain that radiated to the point i couldnt pin point the tooth and was very swollen...the x-ray cleqrly showed the abscess on 2nd pre molar was impinging on a nerve. I had 3 courses of antibiotics. Emergency stage 1 root canal and the second stage over 3 visits as the infection is taking a while to heal. The pain was unbearable so I do sympathise..I was prescribed naproxen, used ice packs and gp even offered amitryptilline which dentist advised not to take..thankfully pain free now and hoping things clear so crown work can begin. Good luck!

Not sure if I’ve misunderstood but you’ve had the first stage of root canal and won’t get it finished until March? Why such a long gap? Now you’re part way through it will need to be finished. Did the dentist show you the X-ray? Was there an improvement after the first stage of root canal?

Mdh2020 a second opinion may be on the cards privately if need be.

Cocodomingo I had an X-ray done in Dec when the emergency appt told me I had an infection. She couldn’t see a clear sign of infection on the X-ray and haven’t had another since.

Bungle I had the root canal stage 1 on Dec 24th. Stage 2 the earliest appt I could get was Feb 25th and will still have stage 3 to go. They are fully booked for months on end.
No X-ray was done on the stage 1 appt.
I had emergency appt Dec 19th given antibiotics. Got a cancellation appt 24th for stage one and now back on antibiotics that I asked for over the phone.
Seeing dentist next week for my routine check up… that’s been booked since September! 🤦🏻‍♀️

Your symptoms are that of a dental infection. They are not specific to a wisdom tooth infection

An unerupted wisdom tooth is unlikely to cause infection. Just because it's horizontal does not mean its going to cause infection.

When you say pus is coming from the second molar what do you mean?

The wisdom tooth will be behind the second molar. If the gum behind the second molar at the back is very sore, red and swollen, and the pus is coming from the are behind the second molar it could be the wisdom tooth.

Thanks orangeshark. I know I have an infection. I just wish I knew why I was getting them repeatedly. I can’t be on antibiotics twice a month forever.

At the very back of the second molar the gum is red which runs all the way down to my front teeth.
I’m sure I can feel where the wisdom is trying to break through about 1 inch under my molar. If I push around that area, I get infection come out between the gum and the molar.

I can’t stand this pain and I have a pretty high tolerance. Just want a reason why it’s happening so I can fix it because root canal on the 1st molar doesn’t seem to be doing much.

With the caveat that I'm not a doctor, but rather let's say an interested observer of the dental market ... I think everything your dentist is saying makes a lot of sense. I would still get a second opinion if I had doubts (and the funds and to get one plus the access to a good dentist), but I would follow your dentist's advice without worry and would want that root canal finished ASAP if I were in pain and suffering symptoms of infection.

I would be surprised if an impacted but uninfected wisdom tooth could cause pus, which is usually a sign of infection. And if you know you have an infected tooth that needs root canal, I imagine you will need that done at some point regardless of whether or not you also have the wisdom tooth out, and if there's an active infection, I'd want that treated ASAP so it cannot spread. Finally, I would not want to have surgical removal of a wisdom tooth in the presence of a nearby active infection, especially if there were a probable way to treat and eliminate the infection before: removing an impacted wisdom tooth may involve a bit of cutting into the bone, and why do that in the presence of pus and infection if that can be avoided?

Thank Yankeedad.

I am all for my dentist completing the root canal asap but with over 2 months between appointments, I'm a long way off that.

How would I know which tooth the infection is coming from? I don't know that the wisdom tooth is uninfected when that is where the pain, redness and pus is appearing from. (behind the 2nd molar)

Its the 1st molar that is done with stage 1 of root canal. 2 more to go.

My dentist in Dec told me she could not remove an impacted wisdom tooth and would not refer me to have it looked at until I was complete with the root canal, which would be fine if I can have a 4 month long course of antibiotics and pain killers in the mean time.

It's hurting in my cheek, eye, ear and jaw and makes me want to rip out every god damn tooth!

At the first stage of root canal treatment it is common to dress the canal with an antibiotic paste to kill off all the bacteria in the canals prior to sealing it. This often needs a minimum of six x weeks to work. The longest I’ve left a antibiotic dressing in a root canal is 12 yrs ( patient moved abroad) it was still clear of infection when we reopened it.
As long as the canal is sealed so bacteria can’t get back in it will be ok for months. If the tooth has a fracture then it won’t stay infection free but then placing a permanent root sealant is unlikely to work anyway if it’s fractured.
It may be that the infection behind your second molar is due to gum infection from food packing behind the tooth. Regular flossing in this area may help. The wisdom tooth is unlikely to be infected itself but it’s presence may be contributing to the food packing but without seeing your X-ray it’s impossible to comment whether this is the case.
Ask your dentist to explain her findings and why she thinks infection is due to the root treated tooth.

Can you have the molar taken out?
I had years of trouble with one and when I switched to a new Private dentist he said I could have a lengthy expensive root canal that might not work or he would take it out.
It wasn’t difficult or painful and was such a relief

Thanks angrymum.
If that is the case with the antiobiotic in the first stage of root canal, it makes it unlikely that is where the infection is coming from. There was no sign of tooth fracture at the first appointment where I was given antibiotics no1. No further xray has been done since then.

When I was informed that it was that 1st molar likely to be causing the issues I was booked in to have it extracted. The dentist said she wouldn't extract it as believed that root canal was a better option. Wishing I hadn't listened.

Ideally I'd like the root canal tooth yanked out, and the wisdom tooth removed which would have to be done surgically, but I can't get my dentist to refer me.
Sat at home in agony waiting for my "check up" next fri when I know nothing will be done with it being a quick appt.

I floss every day with a water flosser and have to use a thin rubber point on it to get into the gum around the 2nd molar. When I did that last night, infection blobbed out. Gross.

Sorry to hear you're having so many issues (I should have said earlier!). But, where you can keep a tooth rather than extract, it's beneficial, especially with upper molars where a dental implant is more complicated to place due to the sinuses. Keeping the teeth in place is good not only for chewing function, but also because when the tooth goes, part of the jawbone often goes as well over time.

But if you're feeling significant pain I totally understand you want the teeth out, and I'd probably feel the same way! And if your dentist is telling you to be patient now when there's still an active infection in the area then I'd definitely get a second opinion to try to find out where that is coming from.

Good luck !!!

I think I’d go and get a second opinion privately. If they agree with your dentist I don’t think you’d be under any obligation to tell your regular dentist. Obviously you’ll have to make a decision if they don’t agree with the treatment plan! For a part X-ray and examination it will probably be £50-100, probably money well spent

Thanks Yankee and Bungle.
Can see this being a long and drawn out process. Pliers are starting to look appealing.

I don't want to worry you, but a cautionary tale about thinking if you have the tooth out, the pain will end....that's where it started for me!
I had a difficult root canal abscess which the dentist couldn't get down due to a twisting root, he suggested referring privately to an oral surgeon however I was in such pain I decided to have the tooth out.
Big mistake!
Tooth broke in the gum and unknown to me there was an infected fragment still in there. I had Dry Socket for 10 days (and if you think an abscess is painful times that by 100 at least for Dry Socket) - had to have it dressed and scraped out down to the bone every other day to give any relief at all which on average lasted under 12 hours each time. 8 x co codamol 30/500 a day didn't even touch it.
In the end I'd been referred on NHS for oral surgeon to remove the infected fragment, waiting time given 3-6 months. I couldn't eat anything except watery weetabix nor drink anything hot at all, I barely slept due to the pain.
In the end I rang them up and begged them to do it privately at a cost of £250.
I had 3 stitches in the gum to avoid a further Dry Socket.
Best £250 I have ever paid, the relief! I'll never forget that pain - it was truly awful & right in the middle of Covid restrictions too. Thank god it wasn't while the dentists were all completely shut in Lockdown.

Our dentist is only doing fillings at the end of the surgery day... Covid rules about ventilating the room after. Even though the Dentists are in full hazmat gear and as if they work in a nuclear bunker.....

That's why appointments are taking so long - I had a check up but then had to wait 13 weeks for the tiny filling I needed. You may get a second opinion easily but not the work............

When I had root canal work done, it took all the pain away after the 1st session. The second one was merely a formality of removing the temporary filling, checking it was all still clean and then putting the permanent filling in. You poor thing, dental pain is enough to push anyone to the edge of their sanity.

Helenrose. I'm so sorry you had such trauma with your extraction. I've had 4 teeth extracted in the past and have had dry socket too. It's not fun.
I'd be happy to get an answer as to what tooth it is causing the damn pain. I thought I could do the root canal and that stage 1 would stop the pain.. it did, for weeks and now I am back to square one which makes me think it was just antibiotics kicking in that helped before, not the root canal.

Boodlebug, the waiting time is ridiculous. I've not come across anyone had to wait over 2 months between root canal stages. I wouldn't mind if I knew it was that causing the problem, but I really don't think it is.

My whole face is throbbing and I want to keep my eye shut to stop it around my forehead. I'm taking tramadol, ibuprofen and paracetamol which are all doing nothing as my body is used to them from having other chronic pain conditions.

This is like some kind of hellish torture.

I still had nerve tissue in after the first session of root canal so certainly wasn’t pain free and it got worse! Fortunately the gap between appointments was only about 3 weeks though. I think molars can be tricky to find all the channels sometimes. I wouldn’t presume it’s definitely not the root canal tooth but if you’re in that much pain it’s worth trying to get some answers soon. One thing to bear in mind is that if the pain and swelling is worsening the infection could be resistant to the antibiotic. Especially if you’ve recently had a course of antibiotics (is it the same one you’ve been given?). Have you tried orajel or clove oil for the pain? They can be surprisingly effective

Thanks Bungle. I really think that I am going through a root canal needlessly at this point. I have my regular 6 month check up on thursday so trying to hold on until then and giving the antibiotics a chance to kick in.
The first course seemed to have worked. I finished those Dec 26th and it was wednesday this week that it came back. I'm on amoxicillin, the same as last time. The other antibiotic they prescribe for tooth infections is metronidazole, which I'm allergic too! Great.

The 2 month wait feels really long. I was cleaning around my back molar last night with my water flosser and where I can't see behind it.. I can get the tip of the flosser into the gum by the tooth by almost 1cm deep without any sensation. That is where I have pus draining from.
I'm on the clove oil and the orajel, but it only numbs it for a few seconds. I have a ridiculous tolerance to pain meds due to being on strong ones for so long. When I had the first stage root canal, it took 3 injections to get me numb.

It could be both? It’s possible to have more than one problem at once.
You could have a dead lower 6 and pericoronitis from a lower 8 at the same time, especially if your teeth aren’t in great condition.

I totally agree silver. The root canal I have to continue with. I'm on antibiotics for the infection, but no idea what I can do about the impacted wisdom tooth as I can't get a referral.

My teeth have never been that bad. Had a few wisdom teeth pulled and 3 fillings. Nothing else. I think I could be paying for years of having my oestrogen suppressed for endometriosis.

I've not come across anyone had to wait over 2 months between root canal stages.

Me! Broke a chunk of a tooth in the summer after being headbutted by an enthusiastic toddler. After various attempts to fill it, decided root canal was best in October so stage 1 done middle of the month, stage 2 was the end of December.

On the subject of wisdom teeth, I have two annoying lower ones and my dentist said the hospital won't take referrals for removal until I've had at least 3 lots of antibiotics for infection for them as guidelines have changed (I'm in Scotland). Which given I'm currently at zero is frankly depressing. They are erupting slowly, brushing them triggers my gag reflex and every so often it gets painful for a few hours.

Have you tried gargling with diluted tcp? My grandmother swore by the stuff for everything but especially mouth infections (she hated dentists).

Thanks Dinosaur. I haven't actually tried TCP. I'll grab a bottle as I will try anything at this point.
I don't know if the wait is because of Covid? I was meant to have my regular check up last July, but never got a reminder. I realised come September that I was past the 6 months. That was when I was given January 20th as the first available check up appointment. It's crazy!

I have bupa health insurance which would cover the wisdom tooth being extracted but she wouldn't even refer me for that until she had ruled out the 1st molar. I'm hoping that might change come Thursday.

There was no sign of infection under it, but due to the large filling being close to the nerve, she was sure it was that causing the issue. I'm perfectly happy for her to do the root canal now it's started, but if there is a chance, that it's not that molar causing the infections, I want to get a referral for the wisdom tooth. She has told me she cannot do anything about that herself, but won't refer me either. God damn it!! Round and round in circles.

Try Peroxyl mouthwash. Often infections at the back of the mouth are anaerobic which is why we prescribe metronidazole. Peroxyl is hydrogen peroxide which releases oxygen and the anaerobic bacteria don’t like it.
Alternatively try hot salt water mouth washes. Water as hot as you can stand it with a teaspoon of salt. Hold the salt water in the area for a minute and repeat. Don’t swish it around.