Why are GPs so protected?

[BiggerBoat1]

Can anyone explain to me why GPs still aren't seeing patients face to face.? All other services seem to be back up and running and in my doctor's surgery the Practice Nurse and Midwife are seeing people as normal.

Dentists are back up and running as are opticians etc. I am a teacher so I have been expected to be in a classroom with 30 children at a time for months.

I asked the receptionist today at my GP surgery when they would be back to normal and she looked at me like I'd grown two heads and said "Not any time soon. We still have the Covid". Is it just me or are GPs being protected to a ridiculous extent?

I think the way my GP surgery is operating is sensible. You have an initial phone appointment, followed up by an in person one if necessary. Obviously for certain things - like when I needed a coil fitting - they go straight to an in person appointment.

Just this morning I rang for an appointment about an eye inflammation that's not going away - I'd been into to see the pharmacist and she said prescription anti-inflammatory eye drops were needed, so I should see my GP. I've got a phone appointment tomorrow, and they've sent me a link to attach a photo of the eye to. So my GP starts the call prepared and aware of what the problem is.

Obviously some things need a FTF appointment, but an awful lot of things can be dealt with quickly and efficiently over the phone, so why shouldn't they be?

Not my experience at all. I can see that some practices are better than others and some GPs are better than others but the sheer scale and range of GP work, especially during a vaccination drive that has so far covered 75% of the population, twice, is not visible.

You won’t get a tel consult either, because they never call back
I'm really surprised at this. I have needed several photos appointment recently and everyone has phoned exactly on the minute they said they would. I know not everyone us happy with phone consultants but so far they seem to be working out ok and for my friends that have had them.

@Parker231

There are loads of threads on the subject of bashing GP’s.

DH is a GP - their surgery along with hundreds of others has never been shut and in the past 18 months has treated more patients than ever together with vaccinations at care homes and the clinically vulnerable.

If you don’t like the service you are receiving from your surgery you can complain or transfer to another practice.

There is a significant shortage of GP’s but more patients wanting more appointments. If you can’t get an appointment, it is because the appointment has been given to another patient. If you can’t get through on the phone it’s because they are talking to someone else.

I just might leave. Your DHs sounds amazing.

Ours have done nothing like that and enjoy their fat salary for providing zero services anymore

@ActonSquirrel - thank you but he is handing the contract back at the end of October and the surgery will close.

[quote Parker231]@ActonSquirrel - thank you but he is handing the contract back at the end of October and the surgery will close.[/quote]
I didn't mean come to your DHs of course

Aw that's a shame but that sounds amazing of them all to have done that

We call and get a phone call back. Then a doctor rings back and if they think you need face to face you get an appointment.

My GP is refusing to see anyone. It must be putting pressure further down the system as my dh is now very ill after the gp wouldn't see him and it's all gotten quite bad for him health wise.
I'm now in the process of trying to change GP to one that will see me. Such a pain and I have no idea why they won't see us. We haven't had covid and would be happy to test to go face to face where possible.

My DM - late 70s, active, hitherto healthy - has some niggling symptoms we are concerned about.

She is scared. She screwed up her courage and phoned the GP surgery but was discouraged by the receptionist and left feeling that she shouldn't be bothering the doctor and they were unable to see her. I'm guessing she was offered a telephone triage appt in 3 weeks or something, but it was poorly explained to someone who was anxious already. People who are older or worried can be easily deterred and need a sympathetic voice, rather than having to advocate and push to be seen.

She has read in the press how it's impossible to get an appt. She has heard anecdotes to that effect from friends. The rhetoric in the media and from some in politics last year about the old and vulnerable has left her feeling that she's not allowed to take up resources at her age and the NHS and society have written off everyone over 70 as a drain on society and if she's ill, she's supposed to just hurry up and die.

I'm worried about her physical and mental health now but after screwing up her courage once and being deterred from bothering the doctor, as she sees it, she's given up trying to get an appt.

A tad off topic but similar theme... My son has been going downhill for days so I called 111. They did their bit and then sent a referral to my GP. Just called the GP who can't help me. So where do I go from here? So although I appreciate GPs themselves are busy and working hard, the system is clearly broken and you can see why patients get frustrated. "GP bashing" isn't attacking the profession or the individuals, it comes from a frustration of the whole system.

I like the telephone triage system and it means I can speak on the phone to a GP THE SAME DAY. I remember having to wait weeks for an appointment for my pill then having to sit in a germ infested waiting room. Or argue with the receptionist that I need a same day appointment as I needed antibiotics with them asking if it was an 'emergency'. Of course it wasn't, emergencies are for A&E but it was urgent. No thanks.
My pharmacy also have repeat prescriptions on an app. I request it on the app and it's ready in two days with no need to speak to anyone. It's a much more efficient system and I can see why GPs are reluctant to go back to an outdated method. I have sent pictures in to them and they prescribed antibiotics. I would prefer to speak to a doctor and leave face to face appointments for urgent cases.

@ReeseWitherfork

A tad off topic but similar theme... My son has been going downhill for days so I called 111. They did their bit and then sent a referral to my GP. Just called the GP who can't help me. So where do I go from here? So although I appreciate GPs themselves are busy and working hard, the system is clearly broken and you can see why patients get frustrated. "GP bashing" isn't attacking the profession or the individuals, it comes from a frustration of the whole system.

I don't know what I'd do - probably go back to 111 and tell them that your GP can't/won't help, and ask for a referral to somewhere else? We have a treatment centre, and A&E of course. Which is where I expect to end up soon if the GP practice continues to refuse to give out any appointments (including telephone triage appointments).

The phone triage system is fine, except:-

1. For people who have hearing problems or for whom English isn't their first language, both groups that have trouble with phone calls.

1. For people who can't talk freely on the phone, i.e. at work, or driving or on public transport or shopping when the random phone call happens (or in a mobile phone blackspot), as many surgeries aren't giving "appointment times" for the call back so it could be anytime that day.

1. Some surgeries don't offer the online appointment booking system, so you have to join the other few dozen/hundred people all trying to phone at the same time at 8am.

1. Some surgeries still have locked reception doors, so those in groups 1 and 2 above who would have trouble to phone don't have an alternative, even worse if group 3 also applies!

If the phone triage system is to be the long term "norm", then the above issues need to be resolved, the sooner the better. Not everyone is able to book an appointment on line, not everyone can easily use a phone, not everyone can sit by the phone all day, not everyone has confidential/quiet space to answer the phone.

So, it needs to work ALONGSIDE other options, such as being able to actually walk into a GP reception area to book an appointment, face to face appointments available for those who can't easily use phones, proper timed appointment times so people can put themselves in the right place, physically, to take the call.

If you’re not happy with the service your GP practice is providing write a letter of complaint to the Practice Manager. A formal written complaint has to be dealt with. If you’re not happy with the response you can escalate your complaint to the health ombudsman.

Most practices will also have some sort of patient participation group. Engage with this, work with the practice to make changes.

I now have appointments booked until November all will be over the phone. Hospital are also getting peeved about the situation and don't understand why the surgery is not doing f2f. They have sent countless emails expressing concern that patients are not having proper access to care.

My asthma review would normally be one 10 - 20 minute appointment. So far I have had 4 over the phone appointments all lasting 20 minutes. How is that fair for other patients? I have raised concerns about it and the subject is quickly changed.

Posted too soon.

Although I shouldn't complain, I didn't have any of my annual and 6 months reviews since 2019 until several complaints were raised by myself and consultants to the practice manager and ombudsman. Had I been monitored properly it would have meant less hospital admissions.

At our GP you have to phone between 8-10:30 and then they telephone at some point and decide from there . I reckon they must dish out a lot more antibiotics by prescribing over the phone as that seems to be what happens here . I don’t mind them not having the same open house approach as previously but I would like to go back to being able to book an appt for an afternoon in a couple of weeks time as I have a few long term diseases and it’s nice just to run a few things past a professional .

Mine have been seeing face to face appointments throughout, but there is a phonecall first. It makes sense to me to do things over the phone that don't need to be face to face. It means fewer contacts for unwell people who need to go into the surgery.

I do think there's been a deliberate campaign to backdoor privatise the NHS by underfunding for years. The government stopped pandemic planning too not knowing what was round the corner IIRC. Posy covid it will be very convenient for the government to start giving their mates a slice of the pie under the guise of improving services.

As with schools, the government is doing a great job of directing public anger onto front line public sector workers because it keeps the heat of Bofis and his cronies

@Badbadbunny

Their union, the BMA are very powerful.

I've posted this before on another thread. Why aren't the BMA not doing more?

IMO, the BMA have no power. If they did, junior doctors, GPs and consultants would have better pay and conditions and wouldn't be leaving the profession, nor allow Dr Bawa Garba to have been hung out to dry for structural failings. When doctors have to threaten to work according to contract and that not secure pay rises when the conditions are so poor and there is a relative under-supply of doctors then it seems clear the power is with the monopsony buyer, the NHS baked up by the right wing press. What power doctors have is removed by their way of thinking.

@Zilla1

IMO, the BMA have no power. If they did, junior doctors, GPs and consultants would have better pay and conditions and wouldn't be leaving the profession, nor allow Dr Bawa Garba to have been hung out to dry for structural failings. When doctors have to threaten to work according to contract and that not secure pay rises when the conditions are so poor and there is a relative under-supply of doctors then it seems clear the power is with the monopsony buyer, the NHS baked up by the right wing press. What power doctors have is removed by their way of thinking.

Blair gave the GPs a brilliant new contract, more pay, fewer hours, "to stop them leaving", but it didn't work, they still left.

The problem goes deeper than pay, not least because older/experienced GPs are very well paid, so don't need to work full time.

The unions always trot out the "more pay" as the answer to everything, but as we saw with Blair, it doesn't always solve the problem.

Our GP has been great. A lot of the time a phone call is fine. A few times we have been seen face to face when needed. I like the new system. My dd gets lots of ear infections. It’s nice to just get ear drops prescribed to the nearest pharmacy rather than take her in every time when we know what it is.

Our surgery has been seeing patients face to face for months now. They do triage with a phone call first and I think that's a good option.

I think a lot of things could be treated at home with over the counter or indeed no medication at all. It has amazed me how many of the children I look after have been seen by doctors for what is actually a minor cold. (I mean, if they are well enough to be in nursery they cant be that bad.)