car seats and oxygen saturation

[Lara77]

I had had Mamas and Papas Primo Viaggio SIP car seat found it quite upright and borrowed one of my friends chicco. But unfortunately I used Primo Viaggio one until 16 weeks. I have been searching about car seats on the internet since last week and read horrible things about car seats and babies oxygen saturation. I was already quite depressed and had lots of worries about my baby's health anyway. After reading all those stuff my mood has deteriorated and I started feeling guilty about not doing enough research before buying the car seat. I keep worrying about any possible harmful effect of a car seat (I should have used a carry cot or lying flat car seat). Please help me, I think I need some support and reassurance...

Message withdrawn

Please don't worry. Your baby is fine. If oxygen saturation had caused any problems, they would have been immediately apparent.

Carry cots and lie-flat seats are enormously dangerous - at least one model was taken off the market after independent tests showed it fell apart in a 40mph crash.

Only thing with car seats is not to use them for long periods - IIRC no longer than two hours at a time.

I have no idea what this thread is about - what is oxygen saturation and car seats please?

Would you like to have a look at this link for example?
www.carseatinfo.co.uk/index.cfm?sid=19086&pid=292366

that info appears to be from manufacturers of lie-flat car seats, though. Who say 'we are not doctors' but then go on to attempt to discuss medical research.

I'm sure they aren't trying to give a false impression, but I'd trust the independent Which? crash tests of car seats more.

I'm baffled too

As long as the seat isn't being used for long periods I would still say there is nothing to panic about.

( thinking back to DD with colic who would sleep 4-5 hours in her car seat after driving round in circles to get her to sleep, then wouldn't risk moving her out for fear of waking her¬!!)

sounds like the biggest load of scare mongering bolleaux i have heard in a long time

do these people sell infant car seats favoured by this research?

and they are not medially trained

they have extrapolated a potential problem from some obscure research when they are not trained in the area of research

I cannot imagine anything more potentially dangerous for a baby than being in a car accident in one of those lie flats. The baby would just be flung about sideways in the thing with no support for the head.
In every piece of information I have ever previously seen about car seats, the lie flat ones and carry cots are NOT recommended.
In a normal rear facing seat the back, head, and therefore a baby's floppy neck are well supported.
I have never seen an 'upright' newborn baby seat so they are criticising something that doesn't exist.
Sorry but I agree that this is a load of twaddle aimed right at the already overloaded guilt sensor (and wallets) of new parents.

Both my children used the m and p viaggio car seats and perfectly fine, I understand how u feel though I use to always panic about they health, but as long as you follow the guidelines about them not being in it for long periods. Also if there was that much concern over them surely they would be recalled

I think its disgraceful that they refer to cot death stats in an ad for car seats.
Just a point, but could the 24 babies a year that die in car seats do so because they are in a car accident, not because they are just sitting in a car seat?
If we are going to believe and get worked up about everything on this website will any of us put our babies in a COT again?

Good point, Flibberty.

As I said below, independent crash tests found two lie flat models disintegrated in 40mph crashes. A baby would have been flung out and killed. Which?, who did the tests, called for both models to be taken off the market.

Thanks guys. I feel better now. All these worries were triggered by having a relatively upright car seat (primo viaggio). I am a first time mum and I didn't know anything about car seats, buggies, prams, etc. So I went to Mamas and Papas thinking that it's a well respected, well known company. However, the car seat is a total dissapointment. Their staff in the shops are not very helpfull either. They even didn't mention to me about head supports. When I remember my ds squashed in the car seat and her head going one side without a head hugger on the way our home from hospital, I feel horrible. I hate mamas and papas and will never buy anything from them.

I have searched in the archive and it seems I am not the only mum disappointed by primo viaggio. I think I will start a thread inviting them to get together and raise our concerns to mamas and papas.
By the way, it is very reassuring to hear that this web site is extrapolating and exaggerating a potential problem. Sorry about my naivity but Edam do you think that this web site is from he manufacturer of Jane? I've read the other sections in the web site and seen that they also critisize isofix bases. I think they are not very impartial. this web site was the most worrying one. Another one was this; pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/108/3/647

upright car seats do mean your baby gets slightly less oxygen but upright car seats are the safest in the event of a crash. swings and roundabouts.

anything to add?

I had a crash with DS in the M&P car seat - he's fine. As far as I'm concerned that's the most important thing a car seat can do.
I did buy a different one afterwards but that was because I wanted an isofix one. Would have had the M&P one again but I found strapping it in a faff.

Sharpmolarbear, it is very nice to hear that your ds was fine in M&P. Don't you also think that it is quite upright comparing with other brands? Or is it my obsession/paranoia?

It si quite upright, yes, whjen he was in it in obne of those supermarket trollies I couldn't see where I was going! Think it's fine as long as they aren't regularly in it for long periods, e.g. if you let them sleep in them overnight.

I seriously doubt that the car seat would be the single contributory factor in SID's in an otherwise healthy baby. Sounds like scaremongering and you have just hit on unbalanced so-called "information" at a vulnerable time. btw Chicco have a worse safety reputation than M and P in UK so you may wish to reconsider that in future. Really, there has been no harm done.

Car seats save lives & a baby will not be effected by traveling in a correctly secured seat.
However a baby with other medical problems can struggle by spending prolonged periods in a car seat as it is not the best position for a young baby, for example ds2's physio & paed recommended we only used one in the car & kept it to a minimum BUT they stressed they are perfectly safe & essential as the safest form of travel for a new baby.
Don't worry you haven't harmed your baby & have don nothing other than protect your baby.

As far as I remember, the oxygen saturation worry was regarding babies left for long periods of time in car seats, when not actually travelling IYSWIM.

The same concerns apply when people don't remove rain hoods from occupied buggies when they are indoors.

Not read the whole thread. But here is my understanding

1. An upright newborn baby for prolonged is at risk of "cot death" as the position can crush there chest from below and their windpipe from above. It restricts there breathing and therefore oxygen saturation
2. Premature and low birthweight babies are at greater risk
3. Flat 'carseats' are extremely dangerous in the event of a crash.

I have seen a baby (DTD1) go blue in a carseat (before this research was highlighted). I know it happens.

Based on the above

1. we didn't travel for more than 30mins (except in an emergency) before 3m of age.
2. We didn't leave them in carseat in house - even if they were asleep
3. we didn't use the travel system before 3m and thereafter only occassional short periods (which if you thikn of it 20mins travelling+20mins around shops+20 mins travelling home adds up to an hour)

Would I know if the oxygen saturation did decrease (turning blue, breathlessness, etc)? Or would it effect my baby and cause long term damage without any signs or symptoms?

Lara I just tried to post a long response to that carseatinfo link which has alarmed you so much and lost it. Will try to recall what I said

Basically I really don't think that you should worry on the basis of what it says in isolation.

Firstly I have not come across that site before and it seems to be run by a company called Kidex ltd who also seem to have links to Baby2000, a retail store, so not sure what independence or scientific credence it has.

Secondly it quotes a BBC report from 2006 based on a study in New Zealand of 9 infants (surely not a meaningful statistical sample)which doesn't differentiate between prolonged use in car, general use and those left in outdoor clothing indoors. Even so the article starts "Babies should not be left asleep in car seats unchecked because there is a risk they will stop breathing, warn experts"

Lastly the substantiating evidence linked to are US or Japanese based and the site fails to cite any similar UK or European research.

Some infant car seats are more upright in structure than others but the angle it lies at much depends upon the fit in the car, shape of seat and height/angle of seat belt by which it is restrained. You may well be able to lie it securely flatter than it seems when stood on the floor. Viaggio iirc has a flatter base which may not fit the profile of some cars as snuggly as others. Best advice is to go to a retailer who will try a variety of different seats in your car to determine best fit and most comfortable back angle.

Please don't fret about long term damage on the basis of this report it is far from proven imho that it causes ADHD etc. Even childseatinfo concludes "If you are currently using a conventional infant carrier find out from your supplier if you can recline it back and in the first few months keep your journeys as short as possible. Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES stop using it."

hth