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Original poster

Am i right in thinking viruses are on the increase?

67 replies

BooseysMom · 27/12/2019 21:31

We're all currently ill with the fourth or even fifth virus this winter. I write a diary and last year we had the usual two or three, inc. one that lasts weeks with constant coughing. This year it has doubled. I've had a fever flu type virus which i had to take time off work for, then a couple weeks later a sore throat and cold, then another couple weeks and i get a cold and cough that makes me nearly vomit every time i cough, and so on and so on. Another break and here we go again. I have a cold and cough and one streaming eye! It's endless. We have a 6yo and i've been told it will be like this until he's 9 or 10. Does anyone know if there's any truth in this? Could it be the mild winters causing these viruses to go crazy? I'm so tired and look 10 years older every day. I miss out on so much too like my work xmas party i spent a fortune on and couldnt go to. Next year i'll say no i can't go, as i know i'll lose all my money when i get ill. It's just so bloody depressing and tedious!

OP posts:
Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 28/12/2019 08:48

That’s interesting about the flu vaccine. The year my first DD had it, she was ill all winter with various viruses. Relentlessly so.

I decline the flu vaccine as I don’t think it’s effective enough, have issues with the policy and felt it pulled my child’s health down. As a family, the kids haven’t had had it for years and we have three, one at nursery.

Generally we are significantly healthier in terms of viruses than peers. Virtually no school days missed this winter so far. No sickness bugs.

I do agree that the vaccine does lower immunity a little to other viruses. Would love to see some proper research on this, specifically on the nasal flu vaccine in kids, as as far as I know, it’s not been done in terms of non-flu illneses

FREEM · 28/12/2019 08:51

The theory of flu vacc doesnt wprk here.
on the day the achool here had theor flu vacc 45% of children were off sick.. majority either V and D or a flu like virus.

AutumnRose1 · 28/12/2019 08:54

What sandybanana said.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 28/12/2019 08:55

It does. I reviewed some literature on pubmed.

There is a study in 2012 pointing to increased non-flu viruses in vaccinated kids. Probably for reasons as mentioned up thread - lowered immunity after the vaccine to non flu illnesses. Small study through and don’t see much funding coming through to replicate it. Another interesting one found changes in the nasal microbiome - adverse changes - after administering the nasal flu vaccine.

Don’t see that kind of info in the nice glossy leaflets do we!!! Fucks sake

Bumply · 28/12/2019 08:57

Touchwood but I can't remember the last time I had a cold/virus.
My kids have left school though and I'm not currently working with people who have nursery/school aged kids.

beautifulstranger101 · 28/12/2019 09:00

I dont think they're increasing. When my kids were at nursery around 2010 ish time I was like typhoid Mary- literally ill ALL the bloody time. They passed germs around. Once they started school- haven't been ill since, can't remember the last time I even had a cold.

I'd work to support your immune system more- exercise is the best way, doesnt have to be full on, but try and get regular exercise.

Ilovewheelychairs · 28/12/2019 09:08

There's also been a huge rise in the use of anti bacterial hand gels, sprays, hand washes etc., rather than the use of bar soap and water. Anti bacterial hand wash or gel is totally ineffective against viruses. I've (touch wood!) been far healthier the last couple of years now I've switched to proper soap and water and carry bar soap round schools with me to use instead of their provided hand washes etc. I'm a peripatetic teacher so go to up to 20 schools a week; I was forever catching one bug or other!

Grasspigeons · 28/12/2019 09:10

I work in a school and the run up to christmas has always been a poorly month. Our flu vaccination varies in its timing though sometimes before or after the christmas break.this year it was very early. We dont seem to have had norovirus go round yet - thats the one that i think is 'new' from when i went to school.

ChasingRainbows19 · 28/12/2019 09:28

No kids here but work In paediatrics so tones of real flu and horrid virus' at the moment. Not been ill for 14 months. Usually get one cold or virus a year. So I'm probably due.....

adagio · 28/12/2019 09:28

I have a 7 yr old and 3 yr old, so worst stages for bringing things home, but totally agree thus year is awful. Partly cos this year me and DH seem to be getting everything too, most years I’m sure I dodge most of them.

@HouseSchmurchase the 3 yr old has just been given a long course of antibiotics for her 6 weeks and counting wet cough (which has been keeping us all up every night) - gp thinks it might be PBB (persistent bacterial bronchial infection) - google it you might have the same in your house?

Hopefully I’ll shake this latest one soon, as it’s really cocked up my Christmas! Longest stint off work all year and so far I’ve been ill for all of it. Didn’t even have any mulled wine or anything as I felt (and still feel) too rubbish.

AutumnRose1 · 28/12/2019 09:30

Also, hot desking and open plan offices don’t help.

I don’t have children so can’t comment there but offices are noticeably worse.

MedSchoolRat · 28/12/2019 10:08

There is a study (on Pubmed) in 2012 pointing to increased non-flu viruses in vaccinated kids.

This one? Cowling et al?

There's a 2019 article by many of same authors which seems to be advocating that everyone in household should be vaccinated (Nature). Video of . He seems to recommend annual vaccination for children. Whatever you think that 2012 article means, the lead author doesn't conclude from it that flu vaccination is a bad thing.

HouseSchmurchase · 28/12/2019 10:44

FREEM

The theory of flu vacc doesnt wprk here.
on the day the achool here had theor flu vacc 45% of children were off sick. majority either V and D or a flu like virus.

I'm certainly not suggesting every bout of illness is caused by the nasal flu vaccine, but it seems too coincidental that my daughter's class comes down with a myriad of different illness all in the same week that just happens to be the week after flumist was administered. There was a bug going around the school in the weeks before but you'd expect everyobe to get that bug....not hfm and scarlet fever.

Flurgle · 28/12/2019 10:58

I’ve had several off every day in my class since half term. Flu vaccine wasn’t done till just before the end of term. Most had the horrible coughing virus that’s been going around.
If the suggestion is that the nasal spray lowers immunity - well then presumably that would apply to any vaccine, therefore vaccines are bad. Which, obviously is daft.
I am grateful to the parents of children in my class who have their child vaccinated against flu. In conjunction with my own vaccination it makes me just a bit less likely to catch it. As I have asthma, it could easily be serious.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 28/12/2019 11:02

med yes it was that one. But whether the authors later concludes flu vaccines are recommended or not is irrelevant to the discussion here; that is discussing whether the nasal flu vaccine could be contributing to non-influenza illnesss. And studies suggest it could. Whether that means we still want the vaccine or not is entirely different

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 28/12/2019 11:03

flurgle no, actually. Could it be that nasal vaccines themselves change the nasal microbiome?

HouseSchmurchase · 28/12/2019 11:03

That's a bit of a leap Flurgle. There have been many bad vaccines in history that have been removed and replaced by safer versions. Nasal flu vax is very different from other vaccines. It is live, and due to it having a very quick turnaround (trying to predict which viruses to include in it) it isn't very well tested. It is squirted up noses.

HouseSchmurchase · 28/12/2019 11:08

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Could it be that nasal vaccines themselves change the nasal microbiome?

Southampton uni embarked on a (pharma sponsored) study into whether the resulting change in nasal bacteria levels (due to nasal flu vax) was having an effect on family members of those vaccinated. I.e. they know it changes levels of bacteria but don't yet know what the implications of this are. I can't find anything relating to the results of the study...only that it was set up.

BeyondMyWits · 28/12/2019 11:16

I work behind the counter in a community pharmacy. From our point of view, this year has been the same as any other year. Peaks and troughs same time as any other year.

People with school aged children always seem to think there are more and more viruses, but generally there seems to be the same - on average - across the whole community.

AutumnRose1 · 28/12/2019 11:49

Beyond I was thinking of a comparison to twenty five years ago. I’d be interested to know what experience pharmacists have over that time period, particularly with adults.

BeyondMyWits · 28/12/2019 13:12

I've been here at the pharmacy quite some years now.

People used to die off with pneumonia for instance, now they live and catch another bout, and another etc... so people living longer catch more bugs over their longer lifetime.

More steroids are being prescribed. Steroids suppress the immune system response to bugs - making people feel less ill, but can leave you wide open to more infections.

But generally, kids have always had - and always pass around - snotty noses, vomit bugs, worms, nits, chicken pox, scarlet fever, hand/foot and mouth, fifth disease (slapped cheek), tonsillitis - some of which are viral.

NeurotrashWarrior · 28/12/2019 13:46

There's a flu epidemic this year (not mentioned yet in press etc, started in the northeast) and the children's vaccine was largely ineffective.

Also been a big norovirus epidemic.

LilQueenie · 28/12/2019 13:55

cold weather lowers the immune system and viruses do not get killed by the cold. its heat that destroys them.

AutumnRose1 · 28/12/2019 14:12

Thanks Beyond

I had forgotten about the survivable stuff now!