Its been done before but I'm in a panic...to MMR or not to MMR?

[CrookshanksinJimmyChoos]

?

Crookshanks, if you're not sure, maybe it's worth holding off and doing a bit of reading till you feel more confident with your decision.
The evidence is very clear that MMR is not responsible for the rise in diagnosed cases of autism, I think everyone posting here agrees that. I think that was a very important hypothesis to test though.
The seperate hypothesis that MMR triggers autism in a minority of children is much more difficult to test. But £15 million of legal aid money was spent trying to investigate if this was true. The legal aid funding was eventually withdrawn as no evidence was found to support the link, despite autistic children undergoing a barrage of invasive investigations.

gess there is a website for the clinic here

Thanks- I think the clinic is just regarding MMR though (I want to alk about the others, will give them a ring thoug).

Wakefields patent applicaiton was in the main for a treatment for autistic enterocolitis, not a rival MMR vaccine. I did email Brian Deer to ask why he misrepresented this but he never replied so I can't answer that.

Elizabeth Miller failed to claim that she had work funded by 3 vaccine companies, and also failed to declare that she works for the govt health protection agency but has never been taken to task on this.

Wakefield claims there was no conflict of interest. He at one stage asked for the funding to be returned to the solicitors, but it remained with the Royal Free (not with Wakefield personally). I've posted his response on here before. It's all going through the GMC at the moment (answering most of Deer's claims as he's the original compainent he has some 'thing' about Wakefield, no idea why- btw Brian Deer is a man who openly gloats at a mother's death on his website & his Times reports that I've read have been deliberately (I assume) misleading). There are some reports to the GMC hearing here. These look abridged. Will see if I can dig out the original longer versions.

Some of the legal aid funding has been reinstated. It has been restored to families whose children suffered epilpesy arthritis and encephalitis as a result of the MMR.
As regards the litigations. The legal services commission decided the litigations was 'very likely to fail' even though Merck's barrister had already acknoweldged the strength of the parents eviidence in court. The LSC said it was too expensiove to take to court (15 million already spent). The drugs companies have spent 80 million to date on it. The Hig Court appeal on funding was heard by Mr Justice Davis who is the brother of Sir Crispin Davis - who sits on the board of directors of Glaxo Smith Kline beecham and is Chief Exec of the owners of the Lancet. He said the potential conflict of interest never occurred to him. Perhaps conflicts of interest only work one way?

Kerry- probably the main risk factor wrt MMR would be a family history of crohn's.

BTW kerry- wrt antibs- ds1 had loads by the time he was a year old which I think contributed to his problems. There are various supplements etc that you can take that can help. We found saccromyces B. really helpful (it supposedly clears candida, as it prevents candida colonising).

yes not being on antibs will help. Saccromyces isn't a probiotic though, it acts differently (it's another form of yeast) iirc doesn't colonise just prevents candida colonising. It's a very gentle treatment. We had very good results from it (unusual - most don't have quite such good results), but a lot of people trying to sort out gut issues start with it so maybe worth trying.

I think you can get it from nutricenter if they deliver to Ireland (and you can cope with them- they drive me insane )

Given that there is a very small population of children showing very adverse reactions to MMR:

(1) If I were the state, I would support MMR, because costs of a small no of autistic children would be less than the cost of an epidemic.

(2) If I were the parent, and if I can afford it, I would not take the chance of something so disasterous to happen to my child, no matter how small, and go for single jabs.

A very simple application of Game Theory. Faced with the initial statement, nobody should be giving MMRs to their kids. The fact that most people do can only be explained by inadequate awareness of the issues and the successful propaganda by the state.

P.S.: The probability of your child developing autism after MMR is very small. However the risk (probability x value at stake) is significant.

Hi Gess - I am reading Scientific American Special Edition on Child Development (Volume 17, Number 2, 2007). There are several articles in it about autism, its early detection with a blood test, and an interesting theory of autism as a mirror neuron deficiency and how it might be treated through biofeedback.

I just bought it a couple of days ago (in France), so it would still be in the newsstands, if you are interested.

When I had it done to mine, my thoughts were quite simple. If my children got measles the worst that could happen to them was that they could die.
If they had the MMR the worst that could happen was that they got autism.
I would rather take that risk.

I don't know enough about single jabs though.

The risks of dying from measles are extremely small, especially if you're otherwise healthy. The death rate dropped massively before introduction of measles (single) vaccine.

The lifetime cost of severe autism is over 3 million per individual. My son (severely autistic) will require 24 hour care for the rest of his life. The majority of MMR affected individuals appear to be affected severely. Even if only 7% of cases are triggered by MMR, the costs to the state are enormous. Even HFA costs the state a lot (financially) and for life.

To see autism as some sort of shrug the shoulders 'at least they're not dead' thing is crazy. I don;t agree with kerry in that I don;t think severe autism masks my son at all- his personality and who he is shines through, but it has robbed him of the chance of any sort of choice in life at all. He can't do anything without help. Aged 8 he can't stand outside his own front door without an adult holding him. There are very very few activities he can access, he can't go for a picnic, he can't go to the cinema, he can't ride a bike, he can't play on a computer, he can't go to theme parks (even with help- for all those activities)in addition he is reliant on someone else 24/7 and it will always be like that. His disability will have a profound effect on the childhoods of his brothers, Which is why for childhood at least we'll take the risk of measles for ds2 and ds3 (and I'm well aware they're not risk free- my mother is deaf in one ear from measles), then if they haven;t caught it go for singles at puberty.

The mirror neurone stuff is interesting cotedazure- I susepct its relevant for a reaosnably large number of people with autism, especailly at the lower funcitoning end (inlcuding my son)- imitation has a profound effect on abilities and socialisation- as we found out when ds1 learned to imitate aged 7- it's made a huge difference. I think its an area worth persuing. Autism is often very much a biological system, but how all the bits relate together soon gets very complicated. The brain/gut stuff is just starting to be investiaged and I'm sure will prove fruitful.

Last year a boy died of measles. He was from a 'travelling family' and had an underlying lung condition. That was the first death from measles in 14 years in the UK. And he wasn't healthy to start with nor did he have access to health services.

My first had the mmr and had awful side effects. I have refused to have the following 5 children done. it's not worth the risk.