To you Mumsnetters who are knowledgeable about vaccines, what about the single measles jab?

[Twinklemegan]

I have been doing some reading up on MMR and I'm not at all convinced I want to take the risk, even though it's apparently very small. I'm not convinced that my DS needs to be vaccinated against mumps or rubella but I do want him vaccinated against measles.

However, according to what I've read, it is the measles part of the vaccine that has been implicated in the autism debate. So what does that mean in relation to the single measles jab? Does that carry a risk as well? I'm aware of the other risks like encephalitis (sp?) etc. but I can just about live with those as I understand that the risks of the disease are still greater. But I just can't bear the thought of anything happening to change my gorgeous bright little boy.

Can anyone advise me please, or point me to reliable sources of unbiased information? Thanks.

Oh dear, I just reread the last bit of my OP. I didn't mean to offend anyone whose LOs have SN - please nobody take it that way.

bump

Try desumo website. My dd(now 4) had measles vacc only, when she was nearly 2 I think. Will probably get mumps/rubella ones at some point in the future.

Sorry just checked it, quite alot of site is currently being updated. so not as helpful as usual! Had my child vaccinated here( don't live near worcester but travelled down) and can recommend it.

That's a very good question. IIRC, the Wakefield study pointed to live measles virus in the gut as a risk factor. We did do singles for ds1 and will do the same for ds2. Ds1 had more of a fever and ill-feeling afterwards with the measles and rubells jabs (even more with rubella than measles) than any other jab he had. I just think that giving all 3 at once kind of overwhelms the system for some children.

I don't know how helpful that was but at least I bumped the thread for you

This is from David Colquhoun's improbable Science blog today:-

BBC makes good on MMR

After the fuss about the BBC Alternative Medicine series (see next item), it was good to see the excellent report on the news last night (16th July 2007) about the appearance of the notorious Andrew Wakefield to face charges of professional misconduct. They showed graphs of the increase in the incidence of measles which has followed the fall in MMR vaccination. They reported on the many studies that have shown no link between MMR and autism. And most fascinatingly, they showed a movie of Wakefield's speech at the Mind Institute. I can't find a link to the movie, but here is a transcript taken from the excellent account at Brian Dear's site (see also Autismdiva). Wakefield jokes about the unethical taking of blood samples at his son's birthday party

? They all get paid £5, which doesn?t translate into many dollars I?m afraid.

"But, and, they put their arms out and they have the blood taken. All entirely voluntary. [laughter]. "And when we did this at that party, two children fainted, one threw up over his mother [laughter].

"One child, who?s my son?s best friend, Ollie, he put his arm out, very bold, had the tourniquet put on, and then went very pale and sort of ? wait till next year. He was nine at the time, and his four year old sister came up, stuck her arm out, had the blood taken, took her five pounds and went off.

"And (NAME) burst into tears. Ruined his birthday party. But people said to me, Andrew, look, you know, you can?t do this, people, children won?t come back to you. [laughter]. I said you?re wrong, I said: 'Listen, we live in a market economy. Next year they?ll want ten pounds!'"

I'm quite shocked at the prices quoted on that site. £40 registration fee and £95 for a measles vaccine?! Is it that expensive everywhere?

Not that the price would affect my decision whether to go the NHS route at all, I hasten to add. Is the single measles jab ever available on the NHS though?

Did any of you worry that the vaccines aren't licensed, sourced or tested in the UK? I'm not sure I want DS having a potentially dodgy vaccine either. Oh god, it's so difficult to know what to do.

Twinkle, sorry this isn't really pertinent to your question but I'm interested as to why you don't think he needs the mumps jab?

Our doctor's surgery has a poster up at the moment advising young men who were too old to get caught by the vaccination programme to get MMR due to an outbreak of mumps in the community. It can be quite a serious disease in an adult and affect male fertility. Do you mean you would get him vaccinated against it when he's older?

I'm pro-MMR but I do get a sick feeling in my stomach when I think about ds getting it. I just wish there was a definitive answer that everyone could agree on without claiming bias .

I understand that the effectiveness of the vaccine can decline with time, so it may not even be effective when he's older. I've read that the mumps vaccine may just delay them catching it. This means they catch it when they're older, when it's more serious, rather than catching it and acquiring natural immunity when they're young. I just don't think mumps and rubella are serious enough, or the vaccines proven to be effective enough long term, to justify being forced into having all 3 in one go.

I think its extremely hard to get singles on NHS these days. There is no choice re single jabs sourced and tested etc in uk. They have to be from abroad. So its either vaccinate or don't . I'm pretty sure those prices would be even higher down south. I think they were one of the most reasonable when we were researching. They were a bit less 3 yrs ago though. I need to find out if dd should have a measles "booster" now shes starting school.

We are having single jabs.

Firstly, IMO, your DS needs mumps because it can leave boys infertile.

Rubella - it is more a question of your DS being vaccinated to protect others (girls who will become pregnant). Some people can't have jabs etc so general immunity of the population helps them.

The hospital that I went to said that part of the problem with the MMR is the interaction between the measles and the mumps. They won't give those 2 jabs unless there is 3 months in between.

I paid £270 for the 3 jabs.

Website here: www.breakspearmedical.co.uk/, go to "Treatments" then "Individual MMR Vaccinations". I don't live anywhere near this hospital, but didn't know how to find reputable places, so decided to travel.

HTH.

I tend to agree with you, Twinklemegan. Part of me wonders whether it would make more sense to vaccinate 8-10 year olds against mumps if they have not had it, as it poses much more of a threat during and after puberty. Also, rubella's greatest risk is to unborn babies, so again, would it be preferable to vaccinate pre-teenage girls who have not had the disease? I had a blood test to check rubella antibodies in my early 20s, as I didn't know whether I had had the disease, and knew I hadn't had the vaccination - I have the antibodies, so I must have had the disease. Unfortunately, it probably costs more to do blood tests than to vaccinate babies.

Dd is coming up to MMR age, and I am doing my head in trying to decide what to do for the best. Like you, I am concerned at the origins and reliability of the single vaccines. My feeling is that I definitely want to vaccinate her against measles - the vaccine may have risks, but the disease can and does kill and seriously injure children. I'm just not convinced the mumps and rubella are included for the right reasons.

But why did they suddenly start vaccinating against mumps? I know I was never vaccinated against it, and I did catch it as a child. There must be any number of diseases that they COULD vaccinate against, but surely it reaches a point where enough's enough.

I've no problem with DS having a single rubella vaccine at some point, but it's not a good enough reason for him to have the MMR IMO.

God it's such a dilemma. I don't think I trust the single vaccines either, and I don't think we can afford them. I really haven't been understanding enough of other parents in the past I don't think.

x-posted Roskva - it's a minefield isn't it?

Just to add to my earlier post, I really don't think there are any reliable sources of unbiased info! Doctors etc must give the standard NHS opinion out if asked and private places (I imagine) make money out of giving the jabs.

I was very ill with mumps as a child so I'm ok there. Dh doesn't think he's had it and I'd like him to see the doctor about that as one of his colleagues recently came down with it and ended up in hospital. I suspect he must be immune though because this guy works quite closely with him so he would have been exposed.

Re: rubella, we were given a blood test at 14 to test for immunity (girls only) and only 2 out of the class (I was one of them) needed the vaccination. We were then given another blood test to check it had worked. My cousin is profoundly deaf though because my aunt had german measles when pregnant so it doesn't seem like such a little thing in our family.

I can see that it's easier from a public health pov to have as short a programme as possible to ensure as many people as possible complete it. My head says that it's safe but..

You're right of course Crokky - I know it was a bit of a long shot!

To add to my earlier post, I wasn't suggesting that mumps wasn't serious, just that it's more likely to be serious if he catches it when he's older. Therefore I tend towards Roskva's wait and see approach.

You can get into heated discussions over this in real life if you talk about it to other parents/friends too. I did!

Again, I wasn't suggesting rubella wasn't serious either - it probably came across that way though. I just think the better way is to vaccinate girls at an appropriate age. Selfish parent that I am, I don't think I'm prepared to put my son at risk because the Government's decided it's cheaper to do it this way (or whatever their reasoning is).

Ellasmum - I can't believe I'm here having the debate at all. Until a couple of months ago I was sure DS would have the MMR. But now it's so close it's a different story. And it doesn't help with it all being dredged up again in the news.

I have (as much as I can) trusted the hospital that I chose for the single jabs. I looked at their history and they have been giving single jabs since before the controversy with Andrew Wakefield started. Additionally, it was founded (I think) by a couple with a child who was sick (not MMR related), but I am looking at their "ethical" motives.

Thanks for that link btw Crokky. I'm off to bed now (and will no doubt be pondering this for a while).

I remember having mumps as a child - it was horrid. I actually had it twice, one side at a time . But it wasn't life threatening.

Also, the fact that girls are now being offered HPV vaccinations suggests that it is not such a problem to vaccinate older children.