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Original poster

DD Pooing herself, doctor no use - Im getting worried

23 replies

Beccarollover · 31/08/2004 12:49

Can anyone help or reassure me?

DD (will be 5 next month) has been toilet trained since about 2.5 yrs - dry at night since about 3.5 yrs and rarely had accidents.

However about 10 months ago she had nasty accident where she slipped getting out of the bath and split her vagina open a little bit - needless to say there was lots of blood and it was very scary. She healed well but it took a LONG time for her to use the toilet properly after that - she was very scared and became very constipated - she did get better and we got back to normal. Im only mentioning this as I think it may have something to do with our current problems.

For about 2 months now she is having very regular accidents and pooing herself. The nursery commented on it and thought she also suffered with stomach pain after eating sometimes too.

She isnt constipated - quite often the poo is loose or soft. She does go to the toilet sometimes its not every time that she has an accident.

I initially thought it was for attention but now she is getting upset about it, hiding dirty knickers and trying to clean herself up without me seeing etc.

Last week I printed her a certificate every day she managed without an accident - she managed 6 whole days then had an accident saturday and sunday.

She said to me last night "there is something wrong with me, I have accidents and I dont even know why! Im trying so hard"

I really want to get this sorted, she starts school on Thursday - would hate her to get teased.

I took her to the docs who said it was constipation with overflow - he prescribed syryp of senna to clear a blockage then things would improve - it gave her diarroreah for a couple of days now were back to how it was before.

Anyone?

OP posts:

Original poster

Beccarollover · 31/08/2004 13:16

Does anyone have any names of books that might be good to read with her if it is all psychological?

OP posts:

soapbox · 31/08/2004 13:21

Becca - not sure I can help at all but didn't want to think you were just speaking into the ether and no0-one was there.

We have probs with my DS (4.5) along the same lines but he has always been prone to accidents so not the same situation as your DD. He gets worse when ever anything changes in his life (start of nursery hols, going back to nursery after hols, new nanny, us going back to work after hols etc etc) so I think for him it is psychological. As such the star chart always helps us get him back on track. It sounds like your DD is very aware that something is not right - I would go back to GP again!

Fio2 · 31/08/2004 13:22

I would take her back to the docs tbh. Sorry not much help, i am nowhere near this stage at all, but i hopew it sorts itself out

JanH · 31/08/2004 13:26

becca, did you get the impression that the syrup of senna did clear any blockage that was there? I have heard before that when a child has developed the habit of holding on because they are scared to go because it will hurt, there can be a solid lump pretty much blocking the way and more liquid poo can ooze around it (bit graphic, sorry!) - ie the doctor's "constipation with overflow" - is it possible that the syrup simply loosened what was behind the blockage so it could come through even quicker, but that the blockage is still there?

Prettybird · 31/08/2004 13:31

Beccarollowever - I found this which might be helpful.

It does sound like your dd's previous incident may be having an impact on what's happening now - and that your GP's anaylis may in fact be accurate.

I'm not sure it helps with the psychological aspect though - except for just continuing to be relaxed about it for her sake. One of the other sites I looked at did suggest that it might require a year of medication - which I tohught was a bit excessive - but it may be that it will take time for your dd to be "relaxed" about "having a motion".

bundle · 31/08/2004 13:33

becca, have you been to see a doctor about this? I know that an awful lot (up to 1/3) of paediatric referrals are for continence problems, and psychological factors are usually explored, remind me where you're based.

JanH · 31/08/2004 13:34

That's a good site, prettybird - becca, it includes this bit:

She should have had a stool softener before the senna then from the sounds of it - definitely worth going back to GP.

Prettybird · 31/08/2004 13:36

This site suggests that Syrup of Senna SHOULDN'T be used in cases of "marked faecal overloading" - as "as increased overflow soiling may occur" - I think you know that!

it seems to usggest that you need/also need the "softening agent" of lactulose, to get rid of the obstruction.

JanH · 31/08/2004 13:37

Also:

This sounds exactly like what is happening to DD, doesn't it? It would be great for her if you can show her that bit so she knows there is nothing wrong with her and it's not her fault!

albert · 31/08/2004 13:38

Could it be something she is eating on a regular basis which is causing this. I only ask because yesterday after normal lunch (prawn salad) I pooed myself , 2 seconds later to the bathroom and there would have been an almighty mess! I didn't feel ill, I'm not constipated but I simply couldn't do anything to stop it. I wondered if it was food poisoning but wouldn't I feel sick too?
Anyway, it might be worth monitoring what she is eating and seeing if there is some sort of link. I do hope you can sort this out for her, poor thing.

Prettybird · 31/08/2004 13:38

JanH - I hadn't read that far on the other site - but my post crossed with yours, saying effectively the same thing!

Original poster

Beccarollover · 31/08/2004 13:38

It looks like the doc probably is right after reading that and that she has severe constipation and laxatives tend to be required for months rather than days

"A child with persistent (chronic) severe constipation may also become irritable, not eat much, feel sick, have tummy pains from time to time, and may be generally out of sorts." this rang very true - she always feels sick and complains of tummy pain.

OP posts:

BooMama · 31/08/2004 13:40

Think the idea that she is holdong back might be right. I have a friend whose daughter regularly became constipated after once having a bad experience with a poo and this led to her holding it back for ages and causing all sorts of problems. She was prescribed a similar type of syrup and this seemed to help.
I think the most important thing may be to get over whatever is causing her to become constipated in the first place - if she is holding it back.
My ds is 4 now and successfully toilet trained but it took a year of soiled pants. However, he never refused to poo to the point where he got constipated, he just refused to do it in the loo! Once we managed to break the pattern of fearing the toilet things were dramatically and very quickly resolved. But for a long time I did worry that he had a problem with his bowels, in particular that he could not recognise the feeling of needing to poo. After he complained of stomach pains he was referred for an ultrasound which couldn't find anything wrong. Since then we have cracked the toileting and the pains seem to have gone.
Maybe your dd just needs to use the syrup (I presume it is a laxative) for a bit longer just to get her more used to going regularly and then her confidence may return.

JanH · 31/08/2004 13:40

We did, didn't we, prettybird? Now becca can go back to her GP and tell him mumsnet says he has to prescribe a stool softener first (that'll go down well! )

Original poster

Beccarollover · 31/08/2004 13:42

Sorry, your posts crossed mine - so.... I should really be going back to doc to request Lactulose? Is it available over the counter - our doctor doesnt release appointments until a Thursday.

OP posts:

Original poster

Beccarollover · 31/08/2004 13:43

Bundle Im in Newcastle

The thing that worries me is her not knowing she needs it - it gives her quite a shock and feels humiliated

OP posts:

JanH · 31/08/2004 13:44

Yes, you can apparently becca, going by this - bit dear but worth it not to have to wait?

Do show DD the "can't help it" bit though, won't you?

JanH · 31/08/2004 13:45

This bit:

Softer, more liquid stools from higher up the bowel then 'bypass' around the impacted hard stool. This leaks out and soils the pants or bed. The child has no control of this leaking, and so regular soiling may develop. Soiling due to constipation is sometimes mistaken for diarrhoea

(think you missed it before in the flurry of cross-posting)

Original poster

Beccarollover · 31/08/2004 13:46

Aw I could cry for her bless her - it is very unfair - it also makes her whole "nethers" very sore and red which makes her even less likely to sit on the toilet and try too.

OP posts:

lydialemon · 31/08/2004 13:48

Hi Becca,

Just want to add to the messages that the GP may have 'jumped the gun' with the senna.

BFs DD had the same problem from about 4, although we're not totally sure what started it off. It took a long time to sort out, and she would get reoccurances every couple of months. She was on lactulose, and it would take a little seesawing between too loose and too hard before settling down. She's 6 now and I think she's grown out of it now - she got longer and longer periods between 'attacks' and I think it's pretty much gone. Obviously I don't know the exact details of it all, but if you want I'll put you in touch with my friend? Just CAT me and I'll pass it on to her.

HTH

Original poster

Beccarollover · 31/08/2004 13:51

Thanks Lydia - Im at work at the mo so have to keep mn window up at a minimum - I will cat you when i get home

do you think i definitely ditch the senna then?

OP posts:

bundle · 31/08/2004 13:53

becca I have CAT you too, re related topic.

KatieMac · 31/08/2004 22:16

Before the summer hols my dd had tummy pains (during or after eating)and soiling for nearly the whole half term from the Thursday before half term to the week before summer.
I tried senna etc but it turned out to be a virus and another child in the school had it for nearly 10 weeks and was admited to Hospital unitl they diagnosed the virus.
My dd is now 100% fine

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