Niece not vaccinated, DP and I TTC

[Lilpumpy]

Have just found out my sister has not vaccinated my niece! Am saddened and worried to say the least.

DP and I are currently TTC so looking into the future here a bit. Does anyone know of any reliable sources on whether it is safe for me to be around my niece if I get pregnant? And if, crossing fingers, we have a newborn soon, am I right in thinking that niece shouldn't meet baby until they are vaccinated? How long would we have to wait - I read somewhere that babies don't get fully vaccinated until they are 2!

Not looking forward to the arguments/upset this will cause in the family. Not to mention I love my niece and hate the thought of banning her from seeing a new cousin through no fault of her own. It's very difficult. So cross with my sister!!

I agree that they should have vaccinated her. I think all children should be vaccinated unless there's a medical reason. But unfortunately there's nothing you can do as you can't make the decision for her parents.
As for your baby, you're not pregnant yet so I wouldn't worry about it yet. Your child will come into contact with other people in the world with contagious things so I wouldn't focus too much on keeping it from your niece. And you can vaccinate your own child of course.

Bollocks to the advice above. I did not allow my DCs to come into contact with unvaccinated children, although it was easier as they were friends not family. Unvaccinated children are not general contagious things one comes across one way or another, they are people who are potentially carrying lethal diseases. There is no reason to take the risk. I’d keep my baby away from my niece and tell my sister why, it’s a cost you pay when you make the idiotic decision not to vaccinate your kids.

If you have been vaccinated then there’s no risk due to you being around someone unvaccinated, whether you’re pregnant or not.

If not vaccinated she may catch all the diseases instead so still not a risk to anyone after that.

Your niece is only a risk to your baby if she is carrying a disease. She can't spread any diseases if she doesn't have them herself. Unvaccinated people aren't dripping in disease any more than your baby will be before it is vaccinated. Are you going to keep your baby away from every other baby until it is 2?

Do you know why your DNiece is unvaccinated?

Because you also need to sort out your thinking about the risk to your baby from those who cannot ever receive some/all vaccinations. You won't know the vaccination status of those around you, and you are pretty much ruling out certain foreign holiday destinations.

If you are going to swerve the unvaccinated, then you need to do it properly or there is no point. And work out whether you are going to persist for the first 13 months of life (until first MMR) or age 4ish (preschool boosters) or teens (for the full suite of meningitis jabs)

If you just want to make a point about how selfish those who choose not to vaccinate are being (taking from the herd, but not contributing), then think about how it!'s going to affect your family relationships. Because they're not suddenly going to change their mind - indeed they might become more stubborn.

Not vaccinated because of the one in a million (or more) chance of a reaction from the vaccination. Yet puts her child at risk from measles a potentially life threatening/ life modifying disease. Can't understand the stupidity. The most ironic thing is the more people like her who don't vaccinate, the more likely her daughter is to catch one of these diseases. You yourself are at very little risk because you've been vaccinated.

Booboo so the baby ( that is non existent at the moment) will never be around non vaccinated people? How do you know when you're walking down the street who has been vaccinated and who hasn't? You don't. Bollocks to you.

And it's not just non vaccinated people, people could be carrying diseases in public and you wouldn't know. You cannot protect your child from everything. All you can do is vaccinate and greatly reduce their chances of catching something dangerous.

many infections are contagious before they "show" have you been vaccinated/had rubella or chicken pox or had the current flu jab? Some of these diseases can be dangerous to both the pregnant woman & her baby (check NHS site) so I think you need to make your sister aware of the REAL risk to (potential) both of you compared to the media orchestrated risk to her daughter - ask your gp to confirm.

So to put it into perspective, I'm a paediatrician working in a children's hospital. I (and many colleagues ) have been through the stages of TTC and pregnancy and continued to work. We have numerous children come through our doors who are unvaccinated - does that mean I should refuse to see all of them when TTC or pregnant?! Considering that most of us do not announce we are TTC so other staff will be unaware of this.

Of course, any child who comes in with symptoms of certain infections (chicken pox, rubella, measles, whooping cough to name a few) are isolated and not treated by pregnant staff but if we were to not allow female staff of childbearing age to see all unvaccinated children, the hospital would grind to a halt.

We also have children of all ages coming to hospital for appointments and admissions and they are also exposed to unvaccinated children who attend for the same reason so they are all inevitably exposed.

I did not allow my DCs to come into contact with unvaccinated children

If you genuinely think you achieved that, you live in an alternative universe!

How can you say you do not allow your children to come into contact with unvaccinated children? Do you think the parents put an "I Am not vaccinated" tattoo on their foreheads? There will be kids in the park, nurseries and school and wherever else that aren't vaccinated for whatever reason. As long as your child is vaccinated it isn't a problem for your child.

Anyway, children get poorly with alsorts like colds and viruses you can't shield your baby from everything. If neice is Well it shouldn't be a problem

OK people since you are so literal "I did now allow my DCs to come into contact with people I knew were unvaccinated for non-medical reasons". We knew of two families who chose not to vaccinate their DCs, we stopped seeing them.

Of course you don't know the vaccination status of people on the street but it's a question of risk management. I live in France, where children cannot join public nurseries and schools without a vaccination certificate, so these places are reasonably safe. I socialise with parents whose DCs are vaccinated, so these encounters are reasonably safe. I would not choose to expose my newborn to an unvaccinated child on a regular basis.

riddles26 this is not perspective, it's a completely different question. You are a doctor who is committed to looking after patients even at a cost to yourself - it's part of your commitment to being a doctor. A comparable question would be: would you take your baby into hospital to show to your colleagues and potentially expose it to other sick children? I imagine not.

Children who attend hospital are inevitably exposed to other sick children, there is nothing inevitable about OP's situation. And as you say symptomatic children are isolated, so you don't really expose them to the risk knowingly.

Dniece is not vaccinated as my sister believes they are dangerous. AFAIK there is no medical reason for her not to have them (she's not allergic/had a bad reaction).

I'm not as cautious as you, OP, so I'd just vaccinate my kid on schedule & not worry about all the maybes. It's up to you whether the apparent safety you hope to get from not seeing niece is worth the family aggro you'll experience in meantime by refusing all contact between the cousins.

When I said perspective, I meant perspective of the risks involved being around an unvaccinated child when TTC or pregnant. If it genuinely was such a large risk, the NHS would not permit staff to treat children with an unknown vaccination status when pregnant. For example, there are certain medicines which are known to cause harm to pregnant women - adults receive them as tablets so there is no problem. With children, a suspension needs to be made and women of childbearing potential do not make this where I work - this is because of the risk to someone who is TTC or possible in early pregnancy and not yet announced.

If you think being a doctor means I have to sacrifice my health, you are sadly mistaken. I don't treat patients at a cost to myself/my child - I weigh up the risk of each situation and decide what is appropriate based on that. The NHS would be riddled with lawsuits if we were expected to put our families' health at risk to work

Just for the record - myself and colleagues have all brought our children into work to show staff. The thought of my baby being exposed to unvaccinated children isn't even a consideration when we have healthy children.

It is inevitable in the UK that a child will be exposed to unvaccinated children as we do not have a similar condition where children must be vaccinated to join public schools and nurseries. With people choosing not to vaccinate their children being on the rise, the probability of a child playing with an unvaccinated child at park/playcentre/nursery/school etc etc is high and completely out of the parent's control. I would think twice about taking my child to all these places if they had a health condition where their immune system is compromised but for a healthy child, you ensure they have all their vaccinations and continue with life as normal

You really are over-ithinking this OP. You aren't even pregnant yet. How old is DN and what diseases has she had?

Thanks to most of those around her having been vaccinated, she will be unlikely to catch anything. If she does, she's unlikely to pass it on to you if you avoid her when she's ill. If you were to catch something, it's unlikely it would seriously harm you or your baby.

It's far more likely that something else would harm your baby during pregnancy or before it has its own vaccinations.

What if your neice couldn't be vaccinated for medical reasons? Would you still keep your child away from her? How would you feel if they said they were keeping their child away from yours until she's fully vaccinated (i.e. age 2) in case your unvaccinated niece catches a disease from your then partially vaccinated toddler?

Unvaccinated people in the street aren't likely to interact with baby anywhere near as much as a relative so that's not a great comparison.

Hopefully you know that vaccinated can still get ill from what they've been vaccinated against.

If you are going to apply policies on the unvaxxed then you should do your research. Do doctors and nurses get sick more often? What are you scared of?

The only person at risk is your niece, if you get your non existent baby vaccinated then what's the problem ?

I'd keep niece away from your baby until your baby has had their first MMR age 1. bollocks to what your stupid antivaxx sister thinks. Niece can meet baby when she's had her first MMR.

You should get your rubella antibodies checked before you ttc as not everyone retains immunity. This gives you the chance to get a booster. You would have to delay ttc for a couple of months.
If she gets it and comes into contact with a pregnant woman who is not immune it can cause very serious issues with the baby.

After that I would limit contact between her and your baby until they have had their injections.

www.verywellhealth.com/who-is-at-risk-from-unvaccinated-kids-2634420

I wouldn't let a newborn, as yet unvaccinated baby, be in close contact with an unvaccinated child. The risk just isn't worth it. I've taught too many children who've been seriously damaged from measles to be casual about it.