do we have any nutritionists or dieticians on mumsnet by any chance please?

[mckenzie]

I wont bore everybody with my quandry - I'll wait until I know someone might be able to help me if that's okay.

TIA

if it is a specfic query lots of people have indepth specific knowledge - NQC for example.

Do you want to hint at an area?

thanks for replying Dimpledthighs. It's to do with me needing bowel movements while I am running but only on evening runs, not normally on morning ones.

have you posted on the running thread?

not yet. I think the first thing I'm trying to find out is will I need to be looking at what i eat on the day that I run in the evening or should i also be looking at what I am eating the day before? How long does food take, in general, to get out of my system?
Whne I do a morning run it is after just some water and a bowel of porridge and I'm ususally fine but evening runs are a complete nightmare sometimes.

mckenzie - my dh suffers like this although mornings not evenings. He doesn't have any answers though I'm afraid, he assumes it's just the exercise improves the blood flow and makes him go. If he runs in the morning if usually means a route past an available loo. Yet he usually runs on an empty stomach.

Actually it's a massive benefit to me as pre-running I suffered dreadfully with constipation. It's the one thing that keeps me regular. Sorry to not be much help.

I'm not very knowledgeable on diet, really. But this isn't a dietician question, this is a bowel function question.

I think how long you need to pause between eating and exercise depends on your gut. Personally, I need two hours between a decent-sized meal and a run (or a loo break on the run). I know people who need three hours.

I'd think your options would be to reconsider what time you eat, switch to a snack instead of a meal before running (a yogurt or something non-fibrous might be easier?), or take more of a break. Oh, or stride about at home in order to, ahem, get things moving, before you leave.

Oh, FYI, normal bowels take 24-36 hours to pass food entirely through. Varies with your gut, and what your diet is like. My experiences may not apply to you, as I have a bit of IBS and an extremely high-fibre diet ...

to "time" bowel movements you could eat a whole beetroot on its own and wait for it to pass, you'll notice a change in colour in the loo. Everybody differs on the time.

thank you for all the replies and I will definitely try the beetroot test.

I've had tests done in the past (colonoscopy etc) and there is nothing wrong so I know it is the movement of running that is causing it. Trouble is, it's not a case of staying home until i've had the bowel movement for example as I get caught out up to 4 or 5 times for each 50 minute run. And whether I leave a long gap between eating and running (ie lunch at 1pm, run at 7pm) or I have tea an hour or so before I run makes no difference at all.
But there must be somehitng I can change mustn't there?
I'm tempted to have porridge for breakfast and lunch and bugger all else next time I have an evening run and see if that makes any difference but if it takes about 24-36 hours for food to works it's way through, I need to look at what i eat the whole day before don't I?

I'm not sure the beetroot test is authoritative, as beetroot tends to speed its way through your digestive tract.

Presumably if you're going that many times in a run, you're not going that much, the rest of the time? And you're producing quite liquid faeces on the run?

How high-fibre is your diet generally? Are you generally constipated?

I'd be inclined to have a high fibre diet and go for a brisk walk on the same day, to try to move things along before the run, so to speak. Exercise does always increase bowel motility, running just does it better than any other way, afaik.

mckenzie - your back problems (that is you isn't it?) could they be affecting your 'control' or would that have shown up on your tests? Or am I talking complete rubbish ?

Mckenzie - I had a similar problem to you, but never really maaanged to crack it. For a while I wold run in fear of an "accident" (TM ) during a run - and used to have to go to the loo as soon as I finished to clean up. The best I managed to do was to try to "void" myself as much as possible before going on a run - and then also going prepared with some loo paper tucked into my shorts/tights - and a route that allowed discrete detours.

I don't have a problem with regularity or constipation - it jsut seems that running activates those muscles even more. Don't know why it seems to be worse in the evening than the morning. It's probably exacerbated by my pelvic floor muscles having been damaged when I had ds - but don't usually have aproblem with stress incninence, as I think that my Pilates has managed to strngethen the other muscles enough to compensate. But it may be that they can't cope with the pounding that a longer run involves.

But IIRC, you had a caesarian, so that probably isn't the issue with you.

I haven't run for ages - got a recurrance of Achilles tendonitis 4 miles into a 1/2 marathon and still finished (ouch ) - but that put paid to any running for months hand I haven't yet managed to get myslef the impetus to start gain. SO I don;t know if it is still an issue - or whether I need to "train" those muscles better.

nqc - you are right, it is usually quite loose and not that much. Normally I would say I'm fairly regular and go every day at least once, sometimes more even if I'm not running.

Saggarmakersbottomknocker - yes, i do have back problems but i've been told that they aren't connected . I also have a small hernia on the rear wall of my uterus following the birth of my second child 2 years ago. i am currently under the hospital gynae physio dept and next time I see the physio i shall mention it to her but again, i dont see how it can be linked as it's been happening to me for years, pre children even.
It's just that it seems to have got worse now and although I've got very good at throwing myself in the bushes and spotting convenient hidden places to go, sometimes i don't even get that much warning and that's what happened last night which has prompted me to try and get this sorted once and for all. If I have to change my diet drastically then so be it but I'm not giving up my running - it means too much to me.

When you leave a long gap between eating and running, are you having nothing but water in that gap? Just checking you're not, say, drinking a lot of tea with milk in it in there? Leaving a gap (ok, and having a big poo in the interim) is normally what sorts these things.

(The problem, generally, is one of increased gut motility, combined with the fact that eating normally causes peristalsis.)

If you really are having nothing for hours before, I guess what I'd try, in terms of diet, would be either a v high fibre diet, with lots of fluid, or a low-fibre diet. One of these should sort it ... not a pleasant sort of trial and error, though.

Mckenzie - you're a lady after my own heart (or a bit further south!!) I have finally sorted this similar problem with a super hight fibre breckie - homemade muesli made with all flakes except wheat (bloating and more nasty stuff!) Ryvita for lunch with various things on and an average dinner (non wheat)After about a week I started to be able to time my 'expulsions' and would go twice before midday - I then run at late lunchtime (after not eating) and all is well.

thanks again for the extra messages. I did have two cups of milky coffee yesterday NQC, one about 11.30 and the other about 1pm so that mgiht have made matters worse I guess.
I shall try the tips though and see what happens. i usually only have to do an evening run on a tuesday as get to run during the day the rest of the time so it mgiht take me a while to test things out but I'vbe got some things to work on now so thank you all very much.

Milk isn't necessarily that easy to digest. Particularly if you're not 100% non-Jewish Western European.

I really appreciate all you info on this topic NQC, and everybody else. Thanks very much.

Quite common woth runners apparently ... it's gets called 'poo leg' in marathons (where competitive runners don't want to stop)

Well, I see it as mostly a benefit of running. I ran through the early stages of my pregnancy with DS2, mostly just to avoid constipation.

I've not been very good about running lately, got to get back into the habit. (I have a big high-fibre breakfast, and then run two+ hours later, generally with no problem.)

Working on your pelvic floor isn't going to hurt matters. When you do pilates, you're doing pelvic floor squeezes, anyway, right? (My pilates DVD goes on very vaguely about squeezing and holding )

so yesterday I ate normally then this morning I had porridge about 8am and ran from 10 to 11am and was absolutely fine. I did use the toilet twice beforehand (once after breakfast and again just before running, sorry if tmi) but all during the run I felt absolutely fine. Not even a hint of an urge.

Fab - excellent stuff!