Vitamin d

[Bloomed]

Some blood tests have shown me as low for vit d. This might explain a number of symptoms. How quickly might I start to feel better now I'm supplementing?

It depends on the supplements. I took tablets from the chemist but they didn’t seem to do much. I now take drops (with addd vitamin K) and they made a significant change quite quickly.

I've got some drops but they don't seem to have vit k. Hopefully I'll see some progress.

I got prescription vitamin D and felt better within weeks. I now take a daily tablet which is half the strength but feel much better. Hope you get sorted

hi autumn ,
the speed with which things are put right depends upon what bodily system has become dysfunctional due to Vit D deficiency.

Vit D becomes a hormone in the body , it acts upon cells such that at least 2000 genes respond to Vit D hormone. Spread throught differing cells throughout your body. Practically every cell has a vitamin D receptor , all those genes , that is about 10 % of your entire genome have vitamin d response elements ( VDRE ). If you have been deficient for a long time , you may not have been absorbing enough calcium , say and so possibly have bone or joint problems, It may be that Vit d deficiency syndrome shows up as lack of serotonin , tending to make depressive illness more likely, it may be that other brain functions are compromised, leading to insomnia , or possibly sleep apnea. It may be that you find that you are more susceptible to infection. Vit D has a modulatory effect upon white cells which fight infection , which need the vit d to switch on genes to build your own natural anti viral and anti bacterial peptides, the receipes for which are held in your DNA , and are activated when called upon , providing enough Vit D is present and available to those cells.

                   Many people do respond quickly, but it does depend upon what has gone wrong.       The very best thing you can do , is raise your blood level  such that you have plenty of vitamin D in your system.  

 have a look here ,   at this thread , where many people were short of it ,   how they supplemented , what happened , how it helped. I posted quite a lot there to explain  what is going on.  You should aim for a blood level in the region of  120  to  140 .   That is a natural, normal blood level. Higher than many people in this country  UK ,  where many of us are deficient.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2421492-Vitimin-D-can-it-have-this-effect

It is a long read , but , may be helpful to you.

best of luck ,
BTBH
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Thanks BTBH I am very grateful for this.

Hi Bloomed,

got your name wrong ... sorry ... :)

              .  You are very welcome ,      have a good read of that thread ,    if you need any more info , then get back to me.  I have posted quite a bit about Vit D on Mumsnet ,   just search my username .. ! 

BTBH

.

I was secretly hoping you'd appear. I have solgar liquid vit d 2500iu. It doesn't have added vitamin k, so should I get that? I've been having unexplained joint pain and depression and some ibs type symptoms (that'll be looked at further in new year), so vit d could be contributing to all these things.

Have you had other blood tests done?

I had the symptoms you describe, as well as exhaustion, fatigue, nausea and anxiety, and was found to have almost undetectable levels of vitamin B12, as well as low folate and vitamin D.

Hope the vitamin D helps! 2500iu is a good amount to be taking, if your levels weren't low enough for GP to prescribe you something much stronger.

Thanks Jolly I don't know if B levels were tested but I'll get a good B complex now. Vit D was low, in the 20s, but nothing was prescribed.

Did you also have ibs type symptoms Jolly?

I would often feel like I needed to 'go' immediately. Sometimes a bit looser than normal (sorry for tmi!) but not diarrhoea. I would get nausea and palpitations beforehand which would stop after I went to the toilet.

I also lost my appetite, was constantly nauseous and had bloating.

That's very interesting Jolly. I've had discomfort and not had proper diarrhoea either.

bloom . With respect to B12 , IF you have not had that tested , AND you are planning to , then by taking B12 supplement before the test , you will skew the result. i.e , it might look like you have plenty of B12, even if you haven't. Just bear that in mind. It takes 4 months, without supplements, to get your true level. If there is a chance of B12 deficiency , caused by Pernicious anaemia , I would get a B12 test asap. Many of these type of problems can be inter-related . P.A. may be an auto immune response, which vit D may very well ameliorate.

With regard to IBS type symptoms , yes, it could be that low Vit D is implicated. Your micro-biome can be affected, your immune system acts upon you intestinal bacteria, if your immune system is compromised , it may be that your gut bacteria are not as they should be, leakey gut may be another problem , it is not possible to say for definate. HOWEVER , it is possible to say that you need Vit D , especially if your levels were in the 20's. I'll bet your level was just over 25 , which some outdated guidelines say you do not need treatment for, even though those levels could lead to rickets in children !

            At , lets  say  a level of 28 ,     if you respond as an average person ,   you would need somwhere  between 3  and  5000  IU  per day .      Being so low ,    I would be very comfortable taking  5000 IU  per day ,  for 3 months ,   then do measure your level again.   The doctor might resist another test ,   but you cannot be certain of your response. We vary by as much as  6  to  1   in our response.  You can get a test  from this  NHS  lab ,      <a class="break-all" href="http://www.vitamindtest.org.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.vitamindtest.org.uk/</a>     . It is £28 if not doctor ordered ,it's  a blood spot  sent to the lab for analysis.   That is one of the biggest Vit D labs in the country 
 You really should keep your level  above 100 ,  most preferably  around 120 - 140 ,        You will more than likely need to supplement  long term in order to do that.   You can adjust your supplementation ,  according to your blood test result.      Just so you know ,    Blood levels up to 200 - 220   are found in normal people  from just sun exposure.  I am not recommending that ,  some people do that if they are trying to use Vit D  as a pharmacological treatment for their illnesses.    5000 IU  is a physiologic dose ,   your body can actually make 10,000  to 20,000 IU  from a short sunbathing session in strong sunlight. 

          One of the most important co-factors of Vitamin D  is  Magnesium.       Many of us are deficient , or low in that metal.   I would try and make sure I was consuming plenty of dark greens, which contain  chlorophyll which contains magnesium.   Some people do supplement with magnesium.         
IF  you are deficient  in  vit K2   then  it may make sense to get some as well. BUT  ,   since there is no direct test for it ,  it is an open question. It probably won't hurt.     

                Vitamin D toxicity ,  has never been shown in the medical literature   at blood levels  below  500   nmol/L  ,   OR    at supplementation  with  less than  30,000 IU  per day.   

                One other point to mention ,   some people find it difficult to absorb Vit D in oil,    these people may benefit from an  oral spray, whereby the vit D goes straight into the bloodstream, bypassing the digestive system entirely.    That is one of the reasons , that a test after 3 months supplementation is a good thing to do.  You do not really know your  response until you test !   

  That should be enough to go on with ....lol.           get back to me if you need any more info. 

best of luck

BTBH
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Thanks btbh, that's very helpful. I think my level was indeed around 25. I'll probably use the blood spot test you recommend. I'll see if I can persuade my gp to do a b vitamin check too. Will try to get an oral spray for d3 too.

Bettertobe my level was 23. Can you recommend or link to a good source of magnesium and vi t D?

prettypaws

                    I don't like to give a specific brand, because I might be thought of as promoting one over the other.  However,  for most people ,  a gelatin capsule containing nothing but an oil and vitamin D3 (i.e.  cholecalciferol) would be an ideal way of taking vitamin D. No preservatives or fillers. You can get 2000 IU , 5000 IU  etc.  generally you should be able to get a full years supply  for  £10  to £20.    Amazon tends to have a few.     IF  you have a gut absorption problem , then an oral spray  , although more expensive ,  will be absorbed direct into the bloodstream. 

Magnesium, many of us are short of that, and if your food does not have much, then supplementation may be an option. Magnesium oxide, ( MgO) is not thought to be very easily absorbed. So compounds such as magnesium citrate , quite low cost or magnesium glycinate , more expensive, can be used. Around 400 mg per day of magnesium is a common amount. However , if you take that all in one , you might find it loosens your stools. It is probably better to split the dose , throughout the day. Start with a small dose. Find out what suits you, we are all different. Again Amazon , have quite a few options. Read the dosing carefully on the label, often you will need several capsules to make one serving , it can be misleading. You will most likely be looking to have several hundred milligrams of elemental magnesium , so the price may be different to your original impression. You can get a powder , which often works out cheaper, when sprinkled on food , or added to coffee say.

There are conflicting reports upon the efficacy of dermal application of magnesium, i.e. epsom salts baths, magnesium skin oil etc. At least with capsule, powder, or oral spray , you know it is at least getting into your body ! Shop around .

hope that is helpful

BTBH

btbh i have vitamin D deficiency and need to see my GP (diagnosed by consultant at hospital who I am seeing for chronic pain) but am struggling to get an appointment. My level was 17. It's been low since I had bariatric surgery in 2012 leading to malabsorption and my GP has prescribed courses of vit D in the past, but as soon as I stop taking the supplements the levels drop. Is there a better solution?

hi ANFGW

                       Vitamin D is not like other vitamins ,  each molecule becomes a hormone , which is used in the cell nucleus and then degraded by an enzyme called 24hydroxylase.  The amount you need is a continuous need , depending upon what  ongoing processes consume those molecules.     If you have ongoing disease processes , or trauma  or even an episode of surgery , you will require more vitamin d  than say someone without those processes going on.  You also may have a different rate of absorption through the digestive system, bearing in mind your stomach surgery.   In general we need about  70  IU  per kilogram of bodyweight per day,  that would be from all sources. Food , supplement and sunlight , (whether artificial sunlight or natural ).   IF  you do not get much from food ,   which you cannot , here in UK ,  unless you consume lots of oily wild caught fish , or animal products from animals that have been well supplemented etc. 

 In your situation ,   I would be prepared to measure my level , several times , several months apart , in order to figure out what response my body had.   tests  from here 

www.vitamindtest.org.uk/ , an NHS lab.

  You most probably cannot stop supplementation after a few months. Your body will just use up what you have , and your level will simply drop.  You really need to get your level to the appropriate level,  i.e.  around  120 -140  nmol/L   using a regular highish  loading dose. say 9000 IU  per day for 3 months.   Then measure your level.  with a  test ,   then from the result of your test , you will then know what to do.  lets say your level comes back at 200 ,   then just drop by  a few thousand,   then test again after 3 months.   After 3 months on any particular daily dose , your level will stabilise and remain at that level,  with that ONGOING  dose.    Your aim should be  in the region of 120 to 140 ,     but  a bit more would not be of concern.   These are all normal physiologic levels.   It is probably not wise to go above 220, that is the higher end of natural levels. 

An oral spray ,  say 3000 IU  per puff ,   would be a suitable way of dosing yourself.  3 puffs daily to begin , for 3 months , then measure. Oral sprays are directly absorbed into the bloodstream and do not require digestive absorption. 

 You will see on my previous posts why it is so much better to have vitamin D  daily  , not weekly.   

Vitamin D enables your cells to work as they should ,  with all the other nutrients that are required.  To be replete  in vit D is a very good starting point ,     but no doubt you are trying to make sure you get all other vitamins and minerals, which must be difficult for you. I realise this. 

 I hope this is helpful.  get back to me if you need any other info. 


                                                  best of luck 

BTBH

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BTBH, I’m wondering if you could help me figure out how many tablets to take? I had a ridiculously low level of 14 in November, where my GP gave me a shot and recommended a year prescription of 800 IU tablets. He said to take 1 a day but I feel like I should take much more after reading your posts. Should I up my dosage and take a new test in a few months and go from there?

Sorry to hijack your thread OP, and merry Christmas to all!! Hope you’re all having a lovely day