Vitamin D

[VLCos]

Anyone care to share low Vitamin D symptoms please
Mine was 43 in Feb just had it retested now 23 .
B12 was 193 in Feb now 307 .
I have been feeling fatigued would Vitamin D cause this thanks in advance

Also what are the normal levels and what where your levels if you don’t mind me asking

Hi VLclos
Please have a look at this thread ....

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2421492-Vitimin-D-can-it-have-this-effect

Many people there had the same question , what's normal ? It is a very long thread .... BUT , very useful to yourself. You have been told that your Vit D level is around the level which might cause rickets in infants , ...... i.e. below 25 nmol/L.

In adults , such a low level can cause many symptoms. fatigue is one , feelings of depression is another, back pain , joint and bone problems are others.

  Have a look at that thread ,     !!    .     

About 2000 genes are affected , low vitamin D affects many of your normal bodily functions , You have about 23,000 genes , so , roughhly 10%.

      You do need to raise your Vit D level.     In winter   you cannot make  Vit D  in your skin ,   in UK.    Sunlight is not strong enough.  

   You do need to put Vit D right ...      i.e.   take a supplement.  

  You should take supplements that raise your level to  human ancestral levels .    ie.   120 -   140   nmol/L    

   More than likely  you need   about   5000  IU    per day ,   possibly more ,    depending upon your individual response .  

 I have posted quite a bit about  Vit d ,    search my nickname ....  for a lot more info. 


 hope this helps   ,  

         IF   you need any more info ....please do get back to me ... 


         BTBH

My vitamin D level was 13 at my last blood test, I have malabsorbtion issues with vitamins and minerals and my GP said my vit D level was that of a kidnap victim! I had to take a month's high dosage and now have to take a calcium and vitamin D supplement every day. I was tired, achy and felt dizzy regularly, part of that is probably due to my vertigo but the vitamin D deficiency didn't help. I have to have my bloods tested again in a couple of weeks.

@Bettertobehealthy Thank you for the information I will give it a good read shortly ! That’s a big help

@AndNoneForGretchenWieners Wow that is very low !! I will be interested to see what your levels are now !!

@Bettertobehealthy I have been taking 400iu for a while and my levels have decreased is this because it’s just not enough ? TIA

VLCos ,
Yes , your supplement of 400 IU is far too low. IF you are an average responder , then you could expect that dose to boost your vit D blood level by about 10 nmol/L . This is a tiny amount , when you are languishing in the low 20s.

     As I mentioned above ,  you would probably be best served by taking about  5000 IU  per day , for 3 months .  Then retest your level ,   .  At that point you will have a good idea of how you have responded.    there is a 6  to  1   variability.       In general  an average responder would raise their blood level by  25 nmol/L   for every  1000  IU   that they take.      When you reach levels above 100 ,   then your  body starts to store  D3. ,   your blood level will still increase  , but more slowly.   For instance ,  if your level was  120 ,    and you took  1000 IU  per day    continuously , then you blood level might rise by say  15 ,   and not 25.    The stored D3  is a good thing ,  it is used by your cells for the autocrine response.  When your blood levels are as low as yours,    your liver quickly converts the D3  that you have ingested by either supplement, food or sunlight ,  to the blood storage form  25hydroxyD3.   It is that form that is measured by blood tests.  

     After 3 months continuous daily supplementation , your blood level will be at equilibrium for that dose.  That is why it is best to test then.  From the result you get ,  you can then decide what to do  with respect to further supplementation .     IF   you just stop ,  THEN  your Vit D levels will just return to lower levels ,  unless you take other steps.     You cannot make  Vit D  in winter in UK ,   the sunlight is not strong enough.    There is very little in  food .. !        Just  40  IU  in an egg.   None  in   fruit and vegetables.   Some in oily fish ,    but only a few hundred  IU    in a normal portion.  Farmed fish ,e.g. farmed salmon  has  1/4    the vit D  of  wild salmon. 

            The fact that your levels have been dropping  over summer may indicate that you are not absorbing even the very small amount in food ,    unless you are vegetarian ,  in which case  your food will have very little  Vit D.     Meat  does contain some ,   depending upon how the animal was kept / supplemented   etc. 

        Sometimes  doctors won't re-test,     if that  is the case ,   you can get a test here ,  an  NHS  lab ,   they do charge  £28   if not doctor ordered ,   but  it is simple ,  just a blood spot on blotting paper ,  sent to their lab ,  they email your result back within a week. <a class="break-all" href="http://www.vitamindtest.org.uk/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.vitamindtest.org.uk/</a>

   IF  you do have bowel problems , which might suggest absorption problems ,   such as  IBS, Coeliacs, Croh'ns, gall bladder out ,   etc etc ,   then  it might  be better to take an oral spray supplement , which is directly absorbed into the bloodstream, bypassing the digestive system entirely.     

 whew ...  I hope that is helpful ...!

BTBH

The oral sparys are said to work more quickly too. I use one and it really helps. Without it I feel like I'm trying to crawl out of hibernation at this time of year. With it, it's just the usual slight energy drop you get in winter.

Ah that is a great help thank you ! I had my gallbladder out in September would that have had a knock on effect do you think ?

VLCos, your levels are so low (you are deficient) that your GP should really be arranging for you to have a loading dose at high levels, followed by a maintenance dose. You can have a look here at the NICE guidelines: cks.nice.org.uk/vitamin-d-deficiency-in-adults-treatment-and-prevention#!scenario I've cut and pasted the key info below too.

^For the treatment of vitamin D deficiency, the recommended treatment is based on fixed loading doses of vitamin D (up to a total of about 300,000 international units [IU]) given either as weekly or daily split doses, followed by lifelong maintenance treatment of about 800 IU a day. Higher doses of up to 2000 IU a day, occasionally up to 4000 IU a day, may be used for certain groups of people, for example those with malabsorption disorders.
Several treatment regimens are available, including 50,000 IU once a week for 6 weeks (300,000 IU in total), 20,000 IU twice a week for 7 weeks (280,000 IU in total), or 4000 IU daily for 10 weeks (280,000 IU in total).
For the treatment of vitamin D insufficiency, maintenance doses should be started without the use of loading doses.^

I went to the doctor as I was experiencing aching pains in my shins. She took my bloods and turned out I was very deficient in vitamin d. I don't know the figures but I was put on a course of 4000iu a day for 3 months. Coincidentally that also timed with a holiday abroad to a sunny place, and the aches had disappeared. I was advised to continue taking 1000iu daily after that, which I take in the form of a spray.

HI again ,
VLCos

Yes , gall bladder removal can affect your absorption of fat. Vit D is fat soluble. It could very well mean that your digestion of vit D altered since you had it out. In fact the most common supplements ( gelcaps) are oil based, so a spray might be better advised for you. Sprays do tend to work out a bit more expensive, however.

     I would say :  knowing that you have had your gall bladder out ,  it is even more important that you should test your vit d level, such that you can establish which regime leads to a good blood level   120 - 140  ish ,   try not to let it vary too much throughout the year.      

     I would say a couple of puffs of  3000 IU  Daily ,  would be ideal.  Then check after 3 months.  Then decide what needs to be done.     That regime of 42000  IU  per week   taken  daily ,  is equivalent to  the loading dose mentioned above.   BUT  ,  daily is much preferred to weekly.   The half life of  D3 ( unconverted to 25hydroxyD3) is just 24 hrs in the blood.   

   Just out of interest :  

nearly every cell in your body has a receptor for VitD. BUT official UK guidelines are constructed on the premise that VitD can only be regarded as a bone nutrient , ie. that there is insufficient definative proof that it has effects on anything else in the human body. That is why 50 nmol/L is considered sufficient, when it patently is not. There is a great deal of scientific evidence that we need higher levels. A mother breast feeding in this country has usually about 25 IU Vit D per litre in her milk. The recommended dose for infants is 300 IU per day. errrr ...! so that is why government advice is that all exclusively breast fed infants receive 300 IU per day by supplementation. Now, when a mother is given sufficient DAILY vit D to bring her blood levels up above 100 , then her milk will contain 400 IU per litre. This is the "normal" level, it has been for many millions of years ... it is only relatively recently that our levels have plummeted, resulting in much preventable sickness. Many babies , particularly winter babies are at risk of deficiency.

 Jumping off soapbox now ..!

BTBH

Thank you everyone ! Saw Nurse today she prescribed gel caps 20000iu twice a week for seven weeks . Said they wouldn’t retest and I would be fine after that hmmm from the info you guys have given me I know that’s not the case !
I’ll take the loading dose then buy a spray five weeks re - test and see what’s going on :-)

I was diagnosed with but d deficiency of 17 last year. Was put on loading dose and had my blood tested and was back up to 75 but having trouble keeping it up. Dropped back down to 61 and put in maintenance dose. Few months later back down to 35 and now on calcium and vit d. I am wondering if I have malabsorption problem cos I have a lot of tummy problems. Been tested for celiac but not got that. Docs don't seem to be taking it seriously. I can't carry on feeling up and down all the time.

Crinkle A lot of what I wrote to VLCos applies to you , from your description. It may be advantageous to switch to a spray , 3000IU per puff. You should take 2 puffs per day , then after 3 months measure your level. You really should get it up over 100 , preferably 120 -140. over the long term. This is considered a normal level , even by the NHS. That's because outdoor workers , etc reach those levels , it is completely natural. Low levels that you are experiencing are unnatural. The human body can make 10,000 to 20,000 IU per day in strong sunshine , the numbers I am talking about are not excessive.

  You probably need a daily maintenance dose around  3000 to 5000  IU , totally depending upon  your response,  which you can find out by measuring your blood level.   Your level will stabilise after three months on any particular regular daily dose, that is why it is important to measure after three months or more , on the same dose using the same method of delivery. 

The treatment indicated by UK guidelines is out of date, it is not keeping up with the latest research on Vit D. You need a regular vit d input SUFFICIENT to keep your blood level up. Food has very little and sunlight cannot produce it in your skin from mid-Oct to mid-April. You are going to go deficient again , unless you get the right doses.

Best of luck ,

     BTBH

PS. have a look at some of my posts here on Mumsnet , where I explain this more fully. Just search my nickname. This thread -
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2421492-Vitimin-D-can-it-have-this-effect
is a good place to start.

.

Thanks Better that's really useful. Can you get the sprays over the counter or do you need a prescription? I have just finished a course of Accrete calcium & vit d 1000 mg/880 iu chewable tablets so will have another blood test soon.

Hi Again Crinkle ,

                                   sorry for the delay in response ,  I have been away.

Oral spray Vitamin D supplements can be bought at many places , online or in health food shops etc .
Probabaly the best value is from amazon , just search, but make sure you get the 3000 IU per puff version . In your situation you do need a respectable dose. 6000 IU daily ... then measure after 3 months. Lets say your level comes back as , 150 , then that is good , just carry on. If it comes back well above , ( which is unlikely ) then drop down a thousand... or more if it seems applicable.

The amount you need will depend upon your weight , your binding protein efficiency (VDBP), any processes that are going on in your body , disease or healing , are you a smoker, etc etc. diet,etc.

          When you were taking  880  IU ,   per day ,  then you could have expected that dose to raise your level by  about  20  nmol/L  after 3 months continuous supplementation.   Some people may respond more ,  some less.  The key thing for you , is that you take enough daily dose to keep your blood level where it should be.    Don't think that just because you have raised it , after 2 months supplementation ,  that it will remain at that level if you stop ,  or even if you take a small maintenance dose.   You need roughly  70  IU  per  day  per kilogram of your weight , to maintain your level.  That would be from food , sunlight and supplementation.   If your lifestyle gives you very little , then you will need an appreciable supplement.  If you are outdoors most of the day in Spanish sunshine ... !  then you won't. 
 We are lucky , in that nowadays we are able to measure what is happening to our blood levels ,   thanks to the work of  Professor Michael Holick ,  in the 1970's.   The thread that I linked to above , has a You Tube lecture of him explaining much Vit D physiology.  Well worth a look !     

Best of Luck , 

BTBH

.

I win the 'low Vit D' competition with a blood level of 'undetectable' a few years ago!

I had incredibly sore bones, particularly my shins and sternum, but pretty much everywhere else too. I had chronic fatigue, I could easily sleep 9 hours at night and 3 hours in the afternoon. The worst thing all of was the strain it took to walk as my muscles were so weak. I had to struggle out of chairs using my arms because my legs couldn't life me. I couldn't have broken into a run even if I was being chased by a wild animal. Going up the stairs to my bedroom felt like climbing a mountain. I was 39 at the time and felt 100.