ComeOVeneer, or anyone who knows about teeth.... Can I ask a couple of questions?

[Ellbell]

Sorry, but I am a bit dentist-phobic and never feel able to ask about these things when I am actually in the surgery (far less, the chair)!

About 5 or 6 years ago I was told that I had early-onset periodontitis (sp?). Previously I had been through a phase of not going to the dentist regularly, and then had done a runner from a different dentist's when he told me that (quote) 'all your teeth are going to fall out and you're going to need dentures'.

Anyway, when I was pg with dd2 I found a dentist I trusted and he diagnosed the periodontitis. He did pull out four teeth (back ones top and bottom on each side, except for one, which was the one next to the back). He then did what he called a 'programme of aggressive cleaning' and claimed that this had helped (he used to measure what he called 'pocketing', but I don't know really what this meant).

We then moved house and it took me a while to find a dentist after we moved. I've now been to this new dentist about 4 times. Each time I mention the previous problems with my teeth and each time they have looked at me a bit sceptically. I am convinced that they just think I am a dirty old moo who doesn't clean her teeth. Last week I had to go in to have three fillings (eek!). While I was sitting in the chair, all numb and unable to talk (and shaking like a leaf already from the three injections) the dentist said quite casually 'Oh, and this tooth is quite loose too, shall I take it out for you?' I panicked and said 'no', partly because I was totally unprepared for it, and partly because it hadn't given me any trouble up till then. He also said that that tooth really needed a filling, but that he wouldn't give me one because it would be coming out soon anyway.

OK, so ever since this tooth has just 'felt wrong'. Sometimes I can't close my mouth properly and I certainly can't bite down on it properly. It's not painful, but very uncomfortable and I am aware of it all the time. I am starting to wish I had just let him take it out. But it was fine till last week when I had the fillings.

So (sorry for the huge preamble) my questions are:

• Should I have let him take the tooth out? (He has written in my notes 'Grade II mobility', but I don't know how bad that is.)

• Is this tooth likely to settle down of its own accord or should I make an appointment to get it pulled out?

• What next? Am I going to lose all my teeth? Will I still be able to eat with two molars missing at the back on one side and one missing on all the other sides? And what about in the longer term? I don't want to have to have my teeth in a glass by the side of my bed like my gran at the age of 40.

And, as I said before, I have a phobia about dentists, so all this is very scary! I am really tempted to try to go back to the town where I used to live (4 hours' drive away) and get my teeth looked at there by the dentist I really trusted. But it's not very practical.

Aaargh! Sorry. And sorry this is so long....

(Oh, and I do clean my teeth, honest...!)

... see?

Hi - don't know the answer to your questions, but I do share some of your experiences. I thought I had appt at dentists for a single filling - after the injection, the dental nurse asked if I wanted silver or white fillings for the first of the 6 fillings that I needed. I was in shock and walked out. I found another dentist and had one filling replaced. Six years on, the other 5 fillings that apparently needed to be replaced are still 'old and need keeping an eye on' but are still in place and not causing a problem.

I have always felt a bit whoozy and out of it after the injection, don't know if this is psychosomatic (sp?!) but dentist should make absolutely clear what is needed treatment wise so you can agree to it.

Thanks jamiesamfreddie! Sorry to hear you've had a similar experience. The thing is... I know my teeth are fairly crap, but I really wasn't expecting to lose another one and was a bit horrified...

[This has never happened to me on here before... but do I know you in RL? If you know me in RL you have emailed me earlier tonight, and will recognise that my MN name is linked with my dd2... If you don't know me in RL, you now think that I am utterly mad, of course!! ]

Oh you poor thing - I think you did the right thing not to let him take it out there and then. It's not on for him to spring it on you in the chair. I don't have any knowledge of periodontis but as a long time sufferer with my teeth I haven't looked back since I had 3 titanium implants and crowns done on my top front teeth. I had 3 horrible NHS crowns done as a kid and they got progressively ill fitting and abscesses under them etc. On the NHS I spent loads getting them treated and shored up year in year out until I had the fortune to be able to go a private dentist (I had no choice, as I lived in the sticks with no NHS dentist and another abscess) - what a difference. Implants offer a once and for all long term solution. They were expensive but I have had no problems at all in 4 years of having them and never even really think about my teeth these days. It was money well spent. If I were you I'd do whatever I could to get myself to a private dentist (do research and get recommendations) and see what they say.

Sorry to be thick, phatcat, but what exactly happens with the implants? How do they work? My front teeth are OK at the moment. It's the back ones that are falling out on me! I envisage myself eating only baby-purees in a few years' time!

Oh, err, blimey, if it is you, then you've not replied to my email yet?! Am intrigued! Wondering whether it would take only 4 hours to drive from O to R??? My MN name is not at all subtle so if you think you know me then I think you probably do!

I've got a million fillings from long ago. And I did have a course of cleaning from the dodgy dental practice, will never know if that saved my teeth or not, lol.

My MIL claims to be able to do it in 3! Keep off the motorways when she's about!

Your MN name is a dead giveaway! Will reply to email now!

Bloody teeth!

Aarrghh - just done quick search, and it is you! Hi Ellbell!

Back to dentist thing - the one I used (in Barnsley) came HIGHLY recommended, and DH continued to go there, after I left and found a local dentist. However, several years later, he also became disillusioned and joined same dental practice as me. So would suggest you look for local recommendations for alternative dentist, but it's not foolproof...

(Please don't vet this message for excess commas!)

Implants are when the root of the tooth is replaced with a titanium post - over the period of a few months it fuses into the jaw bone. Once it's set you get a crown on it. You can have them done on back teeth too. It's worth thinking about if you find you are spending a lot of time and money getting the same teeth fixed up time and again. Have a Google. HTH

Thanks phatcat. That makes sense. Was a bit afraid to google in case I scared myself even more. I am still a bit at the 'ignorance is bliss' stage (though trying to get past that... hence this thread!).

Oh no, JSF, you have discovered my grammar pedant streak! Don't search for too many of my messages... you might not like me any more!! (Oh, and I over-use ellipses... have you noticed?)

Firstly, yes I think you were right not to let him take it out there & then. IME, grade II mobility isn't the point of no return. I think you are 'feeling' it more now as it has been brought to your attention. Were the fillings in that area too? If so, it may be that a filling is high in the bite & not the other tooth causing the probs. Unless he fiddled with it & 'upset' it. I would see how it gies for a day or so.

The pocketing thing. As you know the gum wraps around all the teeth. Between the teeth & the gum is a 'pocket' or gingival crevice, if you want technicality (where the floss slides down) Everybody has these.

The instrument measures the depth (in millimetres) of the pocket. 1 or 2 being normal & then the higher the number, the greater the depth = the more bone loss. The extensive treatment you had is great for cleaning out all the debris & this will encourage the gum to attach to the tooth better, but it won't elimate the pocket completely & it doesn't help regenerate bone in the case of a high ammount of loss.

Also, it will all have been for nothing if the treatment you had isn't being maintained. A one off of extensive cleaning is usually fine to start the process, but you will still need further appointments to remove the harmful debris to stop it getting so bad again. Even tho, as you say you are brushing, but you will not be able to combat periodontitis on your own, I'm afraid.

Finally, implants may not work for you as you have lost bone. For the implant to work it needs to be placed into the bone & if you have lost too much, there simply won't be enough to hold an implant in place.

1 or 2 being normal ---- sorry, edit that (been some years since I did CPITN scores)

Pocket depths

0 = no signs of periodontal disease = no need for additional treatment
1 = gingival bleeding after gentle probing = need to improve personal oral hygiene
2 = supragingival (above gumline) or subgingival (under the gumline) calculus = need for professional cleaning of teeth, plus improvement in personal oral hygiene
3 = pockets 4-5 mm deep = need for professional cleaning of teeth, plus improvement in personal oral hygiene
4 = pockets >= 6 mm deep = need for more complex treatment to remove infected tissue

And yes, you will be able to eat. You will learn to chew on your premolars more, if you have little or no molars.

I have known older people to eat with no teeth, so there is still hope for you.

Thank you sandcastles... That is so helpful. I am the sort of person who likes to (try to) understand what is going on, but get too petrified to say anything except 'grhfemfhenennnrfh' when in the dentist's chair. I can't remember what my numbers were when it came to the pocketing (it was nearly 4 years ago that I moved) but you have inspired me to persevere with rigorous cleaning (hygienist appointment, here I come!). I do clean between my teeth with an interdental brush (floss doesn't really work as the gaps are too big). Thank you for being both realistic and reassuring and for taking the time to read my lo-o-o-ong post! [grateful ]

Blimey sandcastles... have just seen what time it was when you posted. Are you in an exotic part of the world? Or are you even more nocturnal than me?

Do you know what? It's feeling better today. (This is now 10 days after the original fillings.) The power of MN, or what?

Anyone who sent 'good tooth' vibes in my direction... THANKS!

Only just seen this. Sandcastles is in the antipodean (sp) area of the world. As usual her advice is spot on (she was in the dental field prior to children)

Thanks COV! Will adopt a wait-and-see-and-meanwhile-see-a-hygienist approach!

Ellbell, glad to have helped, as CoV says, I am in Oz. Interdental brsuhes are great, you sound like you have it all sorted out.

I'm glad the tooth is feeling better. I hope it stays that way!

Good luck.

Thanks CoV, nice to know I still remember it all correctly!

Thanks again. Was about to say 'lucky you' being in Oz, but actually West Yorks is pretty tropical today, so only marginally .

Not so lucky when your buy your christmas tree iin 41 degrees & you are too hot to decorate it til 9pm.

Cooled down now tho....thankfully.

If you haven't already got one I would invest in an electric toothbrush too As sandcastle says the interdental brushes are great too

Thanks, ifonly... Yes. I have an electric toothbrush, and that has made a big difference.

It just seems 'wrong' for it to be that hot at Christmas, sandcastles. Poor old Santa, eh, he must boil when he gets down to you with his big red coat and boots on!

I sure don't envy him. At least he coes here first, so he cools off in the UK eh?

Glad to hear you have an electric t/b. They will make a huge amount of difference. Also go for a mouthwash that is alcohol free so less irritant for the gums.

A good one is Fluoriguard or Oral B.

I've been using Corsodyl, as it was recommended at some point (but possibly not for gums... I also have a problem with mouth ulcers). Are the ones you mentioned better? I do hate Corsodyl, as it leaves my mouth feeling a bit sort of numb and slimy at the same time!?

Don't use corsydyl permenently. It stains the teeth yellow.