****Please****, advice urgently needed. Incontinence in older children (high school age)

[aliasme]

I am at end of my tether with this problem and is making me terribly .

DD (12) has been suffering with this problem for about 18 months, she has had Doctors consultation and hospital referral which both concluded (as I had suspected) that she needs to increase fluid intake (she will only drink 1 flavour of squash and is incredibly reluctant to drink anything else, even water) and going to the loo more frequently.
We had a "good" phase for a month or so a little while back and now it has taken a turn for the worse again, I fear the immense humiliation she will suffer if her friends find out ( which I am sure some of them must already) She refuses to wear TENA pads. In every other way she is a wonderful, healthy, beautiful and intelligent child (not the spoilt brat this post may make her sound like) but my fear for her health and her safety is deeply concerning me.
Children can be so cruel I am sure this will affect her forever if something more can't be done. (I have namechanged for the sake of her dignity.) Please, I would be so grateful for any advice, has anyone else ever experienced anything like this?

Anyone?

I don't have any real advice, other than my SILs children suffered with this until they were in their teens. The docs offered little help really. They did grow out of it eventually. Aged 13/14 I think. They said it did tend to run in families, which makes sense as in DHs family (10 kids) some of the boys were incontinent.

I think you just have to be strong for her and follow the advice you're given, but wait til it comes good.

Good luck and hugs to you and DD.

bump

? desmotabs can be taken

My friends niece had this through her teens - she had intensive physiotherapy (overseas) which really helped. Good luck to dd - I have taught children in year 6 (11) who had this and it was controlled through medication. HTH

I had some as a teenager - mainly stress incontenience

I think she prob needs some sort of Psychariactric (I really can't spell - sorry) help to work on the drinking issue

I know that sounds harsh but she could really damage her system & I am struggling with my DD atm (she's 9 & bed wetting) - I am convinced it is a Psych problem not a physical one iyswim

I don't think there is an easy answer, sorry

Def agree with Katymac.
When does it mostly happen. Perhaps you could keep a diary and see if anything shows up, eg school days ect.
Has anything changed in the last 18 months at school or home ?
Other thought is urinary tract infection.If shes not drinking much shes at risk of this . Could you take a sample and give it to your gp or nurse to send off for testing.
Sorry but my dd was doing similar and being sick and we really thought she had a medical problem.Turned out she was being bullied at school and i wish someone had warned me to think laterally a long time ago.

Poor kid. Its not her fault in anyway. The way you describe her doesnt make her sound like a spoilt brat at all.

Do you think you could persaude her to wear a sanitary towel. It is quite normal for many twelve year olds to have periods and she might find sanitary towels less humiliating. You could even tell her than many women wear panty lines to stop mucus from their vaginas damaging their knickers.

Thank you all for your responses.
There is no history of this in the family (even in me despite having given birth to several LOs).What is more, she was by far the easiest of my bunch to potty train etc. but I doubt that's really of any relevance, just seems particularly ironinc.
There have been no changes in her life in the past 18 months and nothing I can pinpoint at all, very confused.
Do you know how the children at your school dealt with it belgianEASTERbnny?It started in year 6 and school is the place where it occurs most often which has led me to gently probe about bullying etc but I am quite certain that that's not the issue as it has happened around two of her best friends houses too and even at her grandparents. It has never occured at home which is why I think you could well be right to suggest psychiatric treatment Katymac.
She's had checks for UTI's which came back neg. She is now telling me that it happens when she laughs which makes me think that she does need some physio too but , despite what she says, she does laugh at home so why does it not happen here? ( very confused)Ours is a warm, happy home and this makes me so sad.
I think what I find so particularly hard is her seemingly blase approach to it, which I know isn't blase at all it's just her dealing with it by not dealing with it IYSWIM? For example the whole not wearing pads bothers me so much as I feel it would save her so much humiliation, I find it incredibly hard to believe that noone at school has picked up on it. The whole situation just makes me want to cry (and it has), I can't seem to make her see that we need to deal with this and she has to help herself.

Sorry that was so long.

Poor DD. The fact like you say that it dosen't occur at home would suggest it is psychological IMO. However, I wonder if another trip to your GP would be a good idea to be asked to be referred to a continence nurse/specialist if that is possible?

Thanks Floss, I have made another appointment for tomorrow, I really hope they can do something for her this time.

Your poor, poor DD. I also have a 12 year old who, although she has never wet during the day, had trouble at night from about 8 years old, having previously been dry day and night from before her 2nd birthday. We saw a consultant about it who suggested that she wasn't drinking enough and that therefore the muscles were weak. This culminated with her spending 3 days in hospital last year with the most awful tummy ache, which made her scream in pain. It turned out to be blockage caused by her not drinking enough, i.e. the poo had gone hard and she couldn't pass it. (Apologies for the lack of technical terms!) Anyway, she still doesn't drink enough, in my opinion, but does try harder because obviously she doesn't want it to happen again. She has not wet the bed since, but then again it could be because she moved up to secondary school in September where she seems more relaxed, so it could be related to that rather than increased fluid intake.

Anyway, do take her to the docs - even if they can't sort it, they can at least help.

Oh, I do feel for your poor dd and poor you!

The only thing that I can say is that it probably isn't as uncommon as you'd think. I teach in secondary and have been witness to a few 'accidents' number 1s and number 2s.

I think , at this stage, you need to ask your gp to get her refered to an incontinence clinic. It isn't an over reaction, and they will have seen a lot of cases like her.

I hope it gets better soon

Good luck - let us know how you get on?

www.eric.org.uk
You need to look at this site and phone their helpline,they are a fab organisation and will be able to offer tons of v gd advice and point you in the right direction.

This is quite a random leftfield thought and please don't take it the wrong way. It might be worth giving her a dose of worm medicine, if this has not already been ruled out as a possible cause. We got very far down the line with UTI tests etc when our DS had terrible weeing problems, and then gave some medicine as a friend had had worms, and things improved overnight. The doctors hadn't thought to suggest this as a cause of a very irrttated bladder. I am sure you have seen so many experts by now that it is a more serious cause, but thought I would mention it. Good luck.

Hi Aliasme

A very difficult situation.

Just to let you know that it is very common for children and teenagers to use 'denial' as a way of coping with the stress of this situion. It may seem she is being blase - but I suspect she isn't at all - but it is her way of coping with a very distressing and potentially shameful situation.

There is a condition called encopresis which affects bowel control - it is VERY common for children to go to exremes as to soil themselves and not do anything about it. This is a stress and shock response.

It might be more helpful for her to talk to an incontinence nurse - they would be more matter of fact - and it is often difficult to talk to family as too shameful and involved.

You sound very supportive and caring to your daughter.

Another thing is Tena type pads are better than sanitary towels as they are much more absorbant of urine - perhaps they could be taken out of the packet or she could tell her friends they are sanitary protection (at her age lots of kids wear towels). However it may be she is resistant as that is part of accepting the problem.

One of the issues your daughter might have is a fear of what is happening to her.

I think it might be good to plan, and even rehearse with her, the following:

What to say to kids / teachers if someone notices she has wet herself (she may not know what words to use or the appropriate explanation to say).
What to do if she has an accident out and about- eg spare clothes, knickers etc - where they are (in her bag) what to do.

She also needs a clear biological explanation of how her bladder works - and why she needs to drink etc. This may not all go in at first - and although not necessary for her to know all the details from a health perspective - it can help psychologically - by externalising what is happening. Even kids her age can tend to blame themselves somewhat - and it is very important she realises this is a medical issue - not a personal failing. If she understands the mechanics of how it all works physically - even subconciously this helps externalise the problem from herself.

I'm not a professional, so please feel free to ignore any of this I may be saying something which is not appropriate to your daughter. I have had some experience of this though -and these things have helped other kids.

Good luck to you in this difficult and confidence sapping situation.

Hi busy2busy, thank you fro going to the trouble of typing all that and to everyone who has been so kind in advising me.
I have taken DD back to the doctor's this morning and we have are gbeing referred to a local Enuresis (sp?) clinic which apparently has a good success rate.
I think my daughter definitely has an issue with growing up and the physical changes taking place busy2busy, and I certainly think you're right in that it may be an underlying psychological reason for the problem, she is tall and quite well developed for her age and detests how everyone (including close family) remark on her height each time they see her, (even our lovely family Dr. remarked on it this morning!)I think that's why she hates the thought of wearing either Tena pads or santary towels too.
Anyway, thanks to all you lovely MNers who have posted for me, I really appreciate your support.I'll keep you posted. xx

Glad you have been referred on, Alias. Goodluck and I hope they find out the causes quickly for you all.