Gluten, stress and digestive issues

[stopmoaningpip]

In spring 2013 I cut down drastically on gluten and wheat in my diet at a locum GP's suggestion after developing chronic diarrhoea, possibly coinciding with a very stressful time at work.
This immediately (within 24 hours) resolved the diarrhoea, as well as one or two other signs I had eg joint pain and I've had limited wheat/gluten ever since, eg I eat gluten free pasta and bread, but still eat normal sausages and burgers.
I have generally been very well since then, including getting pregnant after 4 years of unsuccessful trying, followed by getting pregnant the second time straight away.

However I have had a blood test for coeliac disease/inflammatory bowel disease which was negative.
I have had flare ups of diarrhoea, several times apparently linked to eating bread but also sometimes relating to stress without any obvious dietary trigger.
I have also occasionally eaten high wheat foods without obvious digestive ill effect (poss subtle brain fog type signs).
I find a high fibre diet seems to help.

I'm expecting number two in a few months and don't want to change things just now, but in the longer term I'm not sure whether I should carry on as I'm doing since it seems to be working for me, or whether I should be trying to eat more wheat/gluten as I don't have a proper diagnosis of anything. (Therefore presumed IBS). GP is fairly disparaging 'so you've put yourself on this diet then'.

It would be much more convenient to be able to eat everything, at least from time to time.

Sorry that was a bit long. Anyone else had a similar experience? Has anyone been able to eat more wheat over time and if so did you do anything particular?

Medical specialist will be able to provide rational, science-based explanations, though, and steer one away from beliefs such as "haven't had a cold in a while which must be because I'm not eating pasta & bread".

Cote I'm assuming you mean specialists like immunologists and allergy specialists, and specialist dieticians working with allergy and intolerance, rather than GPs? This type of thing is way beyond what GPs deal with (I'm talking from experience here of myself and DCs.)

They still can't run any valid tests - the test is diet.

Often if the immune system is compromised by fighting low level intolerance, people do suffer more minor illnesses like colds.

"Often if the immune system is compromised by fighting low level intolerance, people do suffer more minor illnesses like colds"

Food intolerances don't trigger the immune system. (Foood allergies do)

Cote I'm sorry but if you insist on posting opinions as facts can you link please to research?

It's not opinion. It's fact.

I would normally just say, "Do the research yourself" but since you asked so nicely...

"Food intolerance, also known as non-IgE mediated food hypersensitivity or non-allergic food hypersensitivity, refers to difficulty in digesting certain foods. It is important to note that food intolerance is different from food allergy. Food allergies trigger the immune system, while food intolerance does not."

"A true food allergy causes an immune system reaction that affects numerous organs in the body. In contrast, food intolerance symptoms are generally less serious and often limited to digestive problems."

"A food allergy:

• is a reaction from your immune system (your body's defence against infection) - your immune system mistakenly treats proteins found in food as a threat...

A food intolerance:

• doesn't involve your immune system"

With NHS and Mayo Clinic seconding what I said, are you satisfied that it is fact and not opinion?

I've worked in the NHS, the length of time it takes to get theories previously thought of as 'alternative' into mainstream medicine is years. And that is even with valid, evidence based research. Look at the research by the doctors who discovered H. Pylori, it took years for that to trickle through. I've had little success with the medical profession in my life and believe what my body tells me.

So now we are to believe that Mayo Clinic and NHS are wrong. Nameless strangers on the internet with no medical qualifications, on the other hand, are of course to be considered correct

Whatever you think of the NHS as an institution, if food intolerances actually triggered immune response (which is rather easy to test for), do you really think doctors around the world would not have noticed it by now? Do you really believe that they would say with conviction that they do NOT trigger immune response?

Cote you've not linked to anything that isn't common knowledge. It's actually a bit patronising to point out the difference between allergy and intolerance to me when in fact I linked to the website of a professional in the field who I have worked with professionally. www.wisediet.co.uk

The NHS is famously behind when it comes to commenting on lots of things.

What I was saying was that if someone is under par due to food intolerances they may well be picking up more colds etc. This is not because intolerances cause colds or the body is reacting in the same way as if the person had an allergy, (an allergy is an acute reaction to an offending substance- an intolerance is a low level reaction over months and years) .

It's only recently that they have shown that there is such a thing as non-coeliac sensitivity to gluten.

There are only a handful of specialists working on food intolerance. It takes time for it to become mainstream and for the NHS to catch up with all the subtleties of it.

You seem to be missing the point that the immune system does not have to 'react' with igE markers to be compromised if someone is ingesting something year after year and their body doesn't like it. Feeling below par can in itself make people vulnerable to more viruses. We all know how when someone is tired it can make it easier to catch a cold.

Well said @PollyPerky.

I would definitely push for a re-test. False negatives are very common for coeliac disease and the only sure way to know is an endoscopy. Diarrhoea, joint pain and infertility are classic coeliac symptoms.

"Cote you've not linked to anything that isn't common knowledge"

Good. So you agree that what I have said is "common knowledge" of scientists and doctors around the world, and not "opinion" as you previously claimed.

"What I was saying was that if someone is under par due to food intolerances they may well be picking up more colds etc."

I know what you said and it is wrong. As I linked from various reputable sources below (and you agreed is "common knowledge"), food intolerances don't involve, interfere with, or cause a problem with the immune system. That means they can't possibly make you get more colds.

Do you understand what I am saying?

Thank you sayhello - I think it might be worth another discussion with the GP in future, especially if I have a bad flare up again after baby is born.

I haven't seen a GP about it for a long time, not because I don't trust their advice but because when I've been so well it hasn't seemed necessary.
It's possible their approach may have changed in the last couple of years.

I suppose the problem with carrying on as I am is that:
a) It may well just be IBS and I could be unnecessarily cutting out wheat.
and/or
b) If I do happen to have coeliac disease or non-coeliac gluten sensitivity (suspect the latter is more likely) then I'm probably not being strict enough with my diet.

Interesting.

After a lifetime of digestive troubles I eventually went to my gp aged 35 and asked for a coeliac test. It came back negative and he said 'So your diagnosis is IBS' and agreed that IBS is a term that just says what it is. He said that medical science does not yet know exactly what causes IBS but that there may be different triggers for different people. He advised that I try cutting out things one at a time to see whether there was a trigger. Wheat/gluten was first on the list. As soon as I cut it out, my symptoms resolved completely. It was wonderful. No more random episodes of diarrhoea. No more going to bed cuddling a hot water bottle because my stomach hurt. I realised that I wasn't always eating too much at mealtimes - I had been bloated and uncomfortable. My whole tummy/guts somehow felt 'smoother' internally. So I have concluded that I probably have non coeliac gluten sensitivity. The only times I've had problems have been when I've had gluten accidentally- and it isn't pleasant. I don't eat anything gluten containing at all and it works brilliantly for me.

I know it's not the same for everyone, and I was rather cynical about the whole gluten thing before it was suggested I try excluding it, but it's really changed my life. I'm really grateful to that GP for not just stopping at a blanket IBS diagnosis but suggesting what I might be able to try to solve the problem. He also mentioned the FODMAP diet.

I think the point I was trying to add was it isn't necessarily 'just' IBS - IBS has causes and elimination diets are a way to try and identify what yours is and hopefully resolve the symptoms.

In answer to your last question, I have not been able to eat more wheat, I really can't eat it at all now (barley malt in a shop bought curry gave me diarrhoea for eg) - but I am quite happy just to not eat it forever. Lots of oats, rice, potatoes, veg. And too many Aldi gluten free oatie biscuits, which are my weakness!

I have pushed and pushed for a diagnosis and agree with many of the Pps on the thread. My symptoms subsided when pregnant but came back worse after the births.

I don't eat any grains now. It's just not worth the bother for me. I get instant fatigue, bloating, dreadful joint pain, tinnitus and brain fog plus a really bad tummy.

I had a blood test and a gut biopsy, both of which came back negative for coeliac. The NHS dietician said that the elimination diet was the only way to diagnose and so that's what I did. I felt like melted crap when I ate these things, and felt brilliant when I cut them out, so it made sense to me to no longer eat them.

I understand the fear of being perceived as 'fussy' as well. If you don't know any better you expect intolerances to be diagnosed and 'proved' by a doctor. The reality is a little different.

Last but not least, DH has a mix of allergies and intolerances as officially defined above. There are several substances that will send him into anaphylactic shock. When he was small (talking 25-30 years ago now where it was not so well known) his parents sent off one of those hair testing kits by mail. It came back with pretty much the exact results that he got from Addenbrookes hospital. I know those kits are not well regarded by the medical profession but I thought that was interesting.

I am like you SueGeneris the Dr said we could retest after a year (but I would need to eat gluten), but she asked me if I would do anything different if it came back as positive and honestly I wouldn't. Even Oxo stock cubes set it off so just not worth it. My next step is to cut out gluten substitutes.

In terms of sausages all Sainsbury's own are gluten free. Dh wasn't keen at first about having gluten free sausages until I asked him what part of a sausage did he think should have gluten in!

Cote I do understand but don't think you do !

I was treated by a pioneer in the field- a Professor of immunology and allergy- 30 years ago. This was when the role of food intolerance was a 'new' thing.

I said that the stuff you linked to was basic for anyone who knows anything about allergies and intolerances.

But you seem to be missing the point that this is an evolving science. Again, look at some of the pages of Wise Diet and see that they don't know everything about all of it - yet. Here www.wisediet.co.uk/www.wisediet.co.uk/Gluten_Sensitivity.html

I completely understand what you are saying. I don't think you understand my point. The immune system doesn't have to show the IgE markers for someone to feel unwell as a result of eating foods they are intolerant to. But if people feel tired, through a whole host of symptoms that are related to foods, they can pick up viruses (like a cold) more easily.

If the immune system is under stress - and having aching joints, runny nose, rashes, itching, loose bowels- is enough to make lots of people feel under stress and their immune system is compromised.

This is not the same as saying- which you seem to be saying- that a food intolerance cannot cause a cold. It's more about the relationship between mental/ emotional and physical health.

Food intolerances don't affect the immune system.

You called this "opinion". I showed you that is fact, which you accepted.

Now you need to understand that "doesn't affect immune system" by definition means that it doesn't "stress", overload, trigger, or otherwise touch the immune system.

It just isn't an immune reaction.

I don't know how many different ways I can find to say this in.

No one knows how non coeliac Gluten sensitivity affects the body .It doesn't seem to cause a auto immune reaction like Coeliac disease but it can be no less debilitating.There is no known test because the research into this is very new and minimal.Scientists are saying that this condition is maybe eliciting some reaction that we can't yet measure.Others are saying no - it's all in your head.
Anyway the point of this thread is to help and share experiences and you're not helping Cote.So go deliver your expertise to other threads please.

Cote I don't know how many times I have to say it either...you are missing the point.

Do you accept that people's emotional state can affect their immune system? If not, you ought to. There is increasing evidence- some out only last week- that people's emotions have a big part to play in health. Research out last week showed (again) that married people have better heart health than single people.

People with pets for example have lower blood pressure. Stroking a dog lowers blood pressure. Elderly people with pets tend to be healthier than those without.

There are more and more examples of how our emotions play a huge role in health.

It's called 'mind-body'.

This is what I am trying to get over to you. If someone is stressed by a whole range of niggling symptoms caused by food intolerance, their immune system can be compromised as a result.

This is not the same as 'food intolerances cause colds'.

You seem to be stuck on that.

And just to add...

I'd like you to explain how something like eczema can be affected by food intolerances rather than a true allergy, if the immune system is not involved.

Someone who may be suffering from eczema may show no IgE markers for dairy foods, but when they give it up their skin improves.
Eczema is an over reaction by the immune system. Atopic eczema has no known cause but does react to stress (lack of sleep, emotional stress) and diet in some people even though they are not truly 'allergic'.