TONGUE TIE ADVICE PLEASE

[soph28]

I have suspected that my dd was tongue tied from quite early on. I gave up bf when she was 5 months because she could only suck when the milk was coming out quickly but gave up if she had to such hard to get the milk out. She can suck from a bottle easily.

However she is 8 months now and still refuses all solids. She doesn't stick her tongue out or move it around in her mouth and she can't babble. She makes squealing sounds like 'aaahhh', 'eeeee', 'oooooooooh' etc. and can blow raspberries but she can't say da, ga, ma, ba or anything similar.

Yesterday HV confirmed she is tongue tied and she will be referred to the paeditrician.

I know tongue tie is fairly common but it doesn't always affect the child. Have any of your dc had tt and if so has it affected them and in what ways? Have any of them had it snipped- will it help?

Obviously each case is different but a friend's little boy had speech problems because of his tongue-tie (he wasn't saying much at all, even at 3) so had the op. He's now chattering away and progressing really well.
My father is tongue tied and he's 55 with no speech probelms and never has had any. He cannot stick out his tongue but it's normal in every other way.

you see I don't want her to be frustrated because she can't talk properly when she could have the op now...but I don't want to put her through it unnecessarily iyswim.

My ds1 was tongue tied, he had the op because it was really affecting his speech when he was about 3.5. It was only me and dh that could understand his speech. The op itself was painless for him, just the anaesthetic to get over, we noticed a difference in his speech straight away, even the same day.
A friend of mine has a dd whose tongue tied is much worse than my ds1, but it never affected her speech or anything else she did, she just cant poke her tongue out at her mum!
Also dd3 is 11 months now and doesnt yet use consonants, shes definately not tongue tied, one of the first things we checked!

Tongue tie affects your ability to kiss, she might thank you for the op when she's older! DS had his done when he was just a little baby so didn't need an anaesthetic, but it's an incredibly quick procedure. You've got nothing to loose by being referred and talking it through even if you decide you don't want to go ahead with it.

dd2 was tongue tied - I noticed it the day after she was born when we were having the paeditricians check. We weren't referred at the time, but I later - with the support of my community midwives did go and speak to someone about it.

It may or may not have an impact later on in their lives, but you will not know this until they are older and start seeing the impacts for yourselves. For me the compelling arguements were 'potentially' not being able to with licking ice-creams, stick your tongue out at adults, move food around your mouth properly, french kiss - not to mention to possibility of speech disorders. The other thing is that the earlier you get it snipped the better from a recovery perspective. Get it done early enough, then there is pretty much zero recovery time and no need for an anaesthetic. I think after the age of 3, you would definitely need to have a general anaesthetic for the procedure.

I eventually had dd2's done when she was 2.5 weeks old. She was away from me for two minutes, she did not cry, there was hardly any blood as the mouth and tongue heal very quickly and I fed her (breastfeeding) directly afterwards. It was the best decision I have ever made and I'm really glad I got it sorted.

Happy to answer any more questions if you have them.

hard to predict if/how it will affect her in later life - but they can't lick ice creams or stick their tongue out at you and could cause speech problems.

dd2 had hers snipped at 2 weeks old due to the excrutiating bf! It was so simple they cut it, I fed her it was done and dusted! I@m sure at 8 months it will be a bit more horrid for her but better than waiting until she is much older as the skin thickens etc

We had this with ds. He is now 2.5 years old and his tongue tie doesn't seem to cause him any speech problems (He is already talking 19 to the dozen).

However the breastfeeding was a nightmare and although I fed him for 2 years it was painful for the whole time. Ds managed to feed enough but it really hurt me the whole time. I'm sure the tongue tie was main the reason for the pain.

We asked about having his tongue snipped at 8 months old. Unfortunately we were told that under 6-8 months old they would do it without anaesthetic as the baby was easy to hold. After that however they would need a general so they wouldn't do it until ds was at least 2 years old as they didn't want to give a child so young a general anaesthetic unless it was really necessary. So we missed the window. I wish we had done this when ds was a small baby.

We missed the window of opportunity and had to wait. Now we are umming and ahhing. We don't want to put ds through an operation and the tongue tie doesn't cause him problems now but I agree that it could cause problems (other than speech) in later life so in many ways I'd like to have it done for him.

I was born tongue-tied and had the operation at nine months old. I was breastfed to a year, but was quite a sicky baby as found it difficult to swallow effectively.
It was done early so that it didn't affect my speech in anyway. Obviously I don't remember a time my tongue wasn't un-tied, which I think is the best way to do it. I still can't stick my tongue out as far as my siblings but other than that, you wouldn't know!
xx

Well, I feel a lot better from reading this thread.
My mum pointed out to me that my ds2 (2yrs) is slightly tongue tied, I hadn't noticed myself, and it doesn't seem to be causing any speech problems as yet, but, i struggled to bf him and reluctantly had to give in at 2 weeks because it just didnt seem to work between us. I bf ds1 for 6 months and had no probs so i felt very guilty at not being able to do the same.
I feel so relieved that there could have been a physical reason why we couldnt gel.
Thanks everyone

My ds had a tongue-tie, no-one spotted it and unfortunately being my first child I didn't realise there was a problem straight away and thought maybe the tongue would release a little bit more the more they fed etc. Ds lost quite a bit of weight the first four wks of his life and I had mastitis on top as the breasts weren't draining properly, but we managed to get the hang of it together eventually and fed until 9.5 months It is so difficult though, constant clicking and losing the latch etc. Very sore on the nips too.

We did want to get the tongue-tie corrected and, similarly to Lazycow, the paed didn't want to do it so young (they insisted on a general when a baby) and wanted to leave it nearer 2yo. We actually got it done at 22months and the reasons were-

1. dental hygiene - with a serious tt you can't use your tongue to pick food out of your gums or out of your molars which could lead to poor quality teeth later on.

2. not the fact he couldn't french-kiss as such but that he might get teased for looking different. Teenagers can be very cruel about this sort of thing

3. speech impediment - though ds didnt' show any sign of this even though his tt was quite severe. (Soph, some babes just don't do harder sounds till later, my dd didn't say mama or dada till 13mo, whereas ds said mama from 7mo!) Children with tt tend to struggle with 'la', 'da', and 'ta' as they use the top of the mouth to make the sound.

4. licking an ice-cream was not a reason for us - believe me a child will get ice-cream into their mouths any way they can with or without a tt!

So for the reasons above (mainly dental & poss teasing) we had the tie snipped, but ds still has a heart-shape to the end of his tongue and it's still 'short' even though it does extend past his teeth now. So he might still get teased for the shape, but we'll tackle that if and when it happens. I am very glad we had it done and we play games with trying to get him to strengthen it - copy where you stick your tongue out, get him to lick things on his top lip that aren't there etc. Aparently post-op exercise is very important.

Sorry for the long post. I hope it helps.

my dd who had tongue tie and then snipped then spent the next year with her tongue hanging out of her mouth. She too was uninterested in weaning - she would only eat baby food (that horrid dry packet mix stuff) until she was around 10 months. She would gagg easily and I couldn't let her have biscuits (not that i would have much anyway) unless I was the one watching as she would often silent choke for ages. I guess I'm trying to say her tongue wasn't quite up to the job and it was a bit delayed compared to my other three.

Both of my children are tongue tied, my eldest is 14 and has never had any trouble from it, he just cant stick his tongue out!
He was speaking fluently by 22 months, he always fed and ate well too, and im pretty sure he has kissed aswell!

Dd is only 2.10 but she is talking well, hers isnt as tight as Ds I really wouldnt worry about it unless it does affect speech.

I would just say I do know several children have have huge speech problems due to tongue tie and then the parents have had to fight to get it snipped aged 5/6 etc. I know other adults who haven't had speech problems issue is you don't know until they try to talk.

Hello soph,

My heart went out to you when I read your message my sister has gone through this with her little boy he is now 15 weeks.
She had his tounge snipped about 4 weeks ago.
She knew he was TT early on within days of his birth she struggled with BF and expressed for weeks, her GP advised her to come back when he was 2 for a referal for an op under general anesthic (sorry wrong spelling)
However after some research she managed to self refer and go private to Kingston Hospital in SW london / Surrey area and for £60 got it snipped in a 2 second procedure without drugs. The surgeon does this op every thursday. She feels very let down by HV, GP's and the NHS in general as she had no support for her to help her BF . Also what made it worse was that at Kingston hospital there were babies there having the procedure who were a day old and she went through weeks of worry and stress.
I think there is a place in southampton also, good luck hope this info helped

DS2's tongue tie was spotted by an eagle eye'd student midwife on our first home visit. They said it might be worth following up with the doctor, who referred him straight away to see a consultant at hospital. We didn't know what to expect really but when he saw us he said that it was very pronounced and offered to either do it there and then under a local or for us to come back and he would do it under a general anesthetic. We discussed through the advantages and disadvantages of both and went for straight away with a pair of scissors and a local. There was a spot of blood and DS didn't seem distressed in any way. We stayed half an hour under observation and that was it. Job done. I'm really glad we made that decision. DS was two or three months old.

Amongst the discussion I do remember the consultant saying that they perform the operation with very young babies and then there's a time when it's past that for some reason and they wait until the baby is a bit older. I wish I could remember how old or why for you. I think things will become a lot clearer for you after seeing the consultant. You will know then how pronounced the tongue tie is and what the options are at her age. I'm sure they will understand if you then want some time to think before coming to a decision. Good luck.

My dd was born with a tt which was spotted straightaway by the midwife. i was told to leave it and it would probably loosen itself. It wasn't until she was 14mo old that i decided to take her to the GP as although she had lots of words they weren't terribly clear (she never had a prob feeding though). the GP referred us to a consultant who said it was a tight tt so should be snipped and she would probably need speech therapy too. I was told she would get it done under general in march (at 17mo)but i've not got the appt through yet. I am annoyed because it could have been snipped at birth if i'd pushed for it but i just followed the advice of the midwife.

I am tongue-tied. The only issues I have is that I cannot lick an icecream so even when buying a cone, have to ask for a spoon! I don't have any problems kissing or doing anything sexual. I don't have any problems with speech, however, very occassionally i do have trouble with "s" if there is alot in the same sentence! I also cannot stick tongue out, but who wants to see it anyway!!! I also have tried different musical instruments, some of which I struggle with more than others.

My parents did not realise I was tongue-tied so this is why I have not had minor operation to snip it.

I think if I was a parent with a child with tongue-tied, I would as soon as possible get it snipped. Only for the simple reason that if, in later life, when speech may become an issue and its severe and they have the operation, they will know all about it, whereas small babies will not know.

I am not sure if this is hereditory (sp?), but I would like to know, as I am expecting my first and want to look out for this if it is.

Thanks everyone, this has been very helpful. Not sure what to do now though- I got a letter through today saying that she has to wait 3 months to see the consultant by which time she will be almost a year old. At the moment she is a very passive 8mo (not rolling or crawling) and i think they might still be able to do the op with a local, however if we wait till over a year they definitely won't. What should I do now?

This has been such a useful thread for me.

We are now starting the ball rolling to hopefully get DS's tongue snipped. He is 3.5 and having problems with certain speech sounds such as 'th' 's' etc. He was diagnosed tt at a week old but the HV told us to wait and see if he needed anything done. I hadn't even thought about his speech problems being associated with tt as I am tongue-tied as well but had never had any problems with speech or anything else. So there you go Endlesslove - it does seem to be hereditary as my gran apparently was as well (though DD isn't and noticeably she can manipulate her tongue so much more than DS) so maybe something to look out for when baby comes along...

Anyway, it's good to know there's probably a fairly straightforward reason for something that's been a bit of a worry for quite some time.

Thank you all.

Genaeral anaesthetic for quickie procedures is very mild. Usually just a whiff of gas (maybe an injection). She would be 'out' for a very very short time.

I suspect (I am no expert at all) that at 8 months a local would not be done. Even a little wriggle at the wrong time would be scary.

Hope this helps.

any advice for what to do about the eating in the meantime? Do I just keep offering in the hope she will start eating? She seems to find it very arduous and I don't want to put her off completely.

Soph, it may be worth ringing the hospital and telling them youre willing to take a cancellation appointment at short notice, if youre able to do this. Maybe your gp could speed the process up if you explain everything youve read here.

Hi
I'm a speech and language therapist and would just like to say that there are paediatric speech and language therapists in most nhs trusts who specialise in feeding or oro-motor movement difficulties (eg struggling with lumps, textures, delayed babbling etc) and most SLT departments are open referral (I.e you can phone your local SLT department and refer your child yourself) or you can ask your health visitor/gp to do it for you. Just be as detailed as you can about the nature of child's difficulties for the referral.

In terms of tongue-tie and it's effect on speech, I understand there is debate in the SLT profession about how much it affects speech - certainly there is no expectation that it will always hinder speech-sound development as each individual's anatomy and way they use it varies so much and many of the comments above reaffirm this. Also I'd like to point out that "babbling" such as baba mama etc usually starts around 8-9 months so your little one is by no means grossly delayed in this area, particularly if she is making other sounds and blowing raspberries! However a child who is delayed in babbling and seems to have difficulty with the oro-motor movements involved in eating solids may well be at a higher risk of delayed speech and language development, whether these difficulties are due to a tongue-tie or not so it's definitely worth seeking a referral for SLT even at this early stage if you're concerned, so you can have advice on how to develop these skills.

Also, just to comment on other points made above, there is a huge variation in the speech sound development in pre-schoolers, and it's not uncommon for children up to 4 to still struggle with certain sounds such as l r s and th, tongue-tied or not!

Sorry to be a bit of a geek, but just thought my perspective from a professional point of view might be helpful! From a "mum" point of view, don't hold back from seeking as much info and and advice as you need; as a mum you know your daughters needs the best! Good luck!

THey at long last do it at St Peters Chertsey now too whereas I had to go to Southampton and endure 2 weeks of torturous bad latch whilst waiting! Strangley it is this dd who had speech delay and has had speech therapy and needs more although I'm sure having glue ear hasn't helped!

I'm tongue tied and only noticed it at school when everyone else was blowing bubble gum and I couldn't. Only speech problem I had was what my Mum called a "hissing s" when there are lots of s sounds in a row.
I was bottle fed and don't think anyone ever suggested to my Mum that I needed to have it snipped.