I don't know what to do for the best

[Ironwoman123]

Well I do, but I'm finding it really hard to make my decision. I've never been against vaccines. My first son got all of his and my daughter now 6 months got her first set.

A week after her immunisations my daughter stopped making any noises what so ever (previously very chatty making lots of vowel noises). She was completely and utterly silent except for crying for over 10 weeks.

I delayed her next vaccines as I was terrified this was a side effect of her first set.

She's now 6 months and still not particularly chatty but does make some noise. Still no consonants.

Anyway I know I need to get her vaccinated. And I will. But I'm terrified she stops interacting again. And I know in my rational side of my brain that it was unrelated but in my irrational side I think but what if. What if there is a chance she reacts badly to the vaccines. What if her body can't handle the ingredients and I lose her after the next set or subsequent sets.

I'm so scared.

What if there is a tiny chance it does happen.

The thing is I'm now so scared to take her anywhere as she's unvaccinated. I'm terrified of germs and wash my hands constantly and tell my family to do so too, to keep germs away.

Last night however she developed croup and it's put things into perspective that I need to get them done. But I'm so scared I really am. No one knows what it was like having a silent baby for so long when previously she was so interactive. Now she's more interactive I don't want to lose that.

Not sure why I'm posting this as I will 100% be getting her vaccinated but I feel maybe getting it out my fears and anxiety about them someone can relate. Tell me it'll be ok?

It sounds like you've had a rough few months and a hell of a shock. I haven't personally experienced this, but I have heard that the 8 week jags given on the new schedule can be very hard on little ones, so I'm sure that other's will be along with similar stories.

Ultimately no-one can say for sure if the vaccines were related or not so it must be very worrying, but it sounds as though you're equally stressed about not giving them. Perhaps you could talk to your HV and explain your situation, then try giving them one at a time to lessen the impact? Maybe start with the 5 in 1, then the PCV, then Bexsero (that's roughly the order of increasing side effects), and see how your little one gets on with each? Lots of people choose to spread them out for similar reasons to yours, and in my experience HVs are generally sympathetic, especially with such a bad reaction to the first lot.

Do you have a nurse at your GP practice who you could talk to about your concerns? It might just be my practice but the nurse there is ace and really helpful with things like this.

THANks. I've called my nurse and I'm waiting on a call back.

I am wondering if anyone has any knowledge on vaccines and could help in the mean time.

Am I able to split up the vaccines? So could I have one at a time instead of 2/3 at a time?

Can I split up the 5in1 or do I need to go private for this?

In your personal opinion, what vaccines would u put in order of importance?

My five year old hasn't had the Men B vaccine as it wasn't available. It's making me wonder whether I should avoid this one as it's new and perhaps not as necessary? If it was why hasn't my son been vaccinated since IYSWIM?

If just trying to get her vaccinated and safe and protected but also to avoid the risks of her acting adversely to them (if it was the vaccines which caused her to become silent).

AFAIK you can't split the 5-in-1 as not all the components are available separately.

I think you're doing the right thing in going to see a nurse or doctor. It is possible to be referred to a consultant in child health specialising in vaccine issues. I think you need a chance to raise all the issues which concern you, and have your questions answered.

Thanks.

I started a thread on here when she first went silent and people reassured me that it was normal and had happened to their children.

But it was the length of time that my daughters silence went on for. Not only that she seemed genuinely uninterested in interacting in any way with me. Eye contact was poor.

She's now 6 months and vocalising more and more every day and had just started saying consonants (b). Eye contact is great. She responds to her name. She's so connected to me and interacts all of the time.

So part of me is too scared to lose that again. Honestly I was at such a low point when she would just stare into space and not make a single sound for over two months.

But the thing is the week she started making noises again, she also rolled over and seemed to take a "leap" in her physical devlopment. So I'm left wondering whether it was indeed "normal" and she was just working on something else or whether it may have been the vaccines.

From my limited research at the moment I think I will look into getting her vaccines seperatley. She's had her initial 8 week vaccines but I think I am going to avoid the norovirus and Men b for the time being.

I think I will take her for her 5in1.

Then a month later if no reaction I will get her third 5in1 dose.

Then a month later her second PCV dose.

I think that'll bring her up to where my son would have been protected to (as he didn't have the Men B).

Then at 1 year I'll look into splitting up the MMR and staggering the others.

I'm aware I'll probably have to go private.

Does anyone have any opinions (good or bad) about the above schedule?

I think your schedule sounds reasonable, and you shouldn't have any issues spacing them out on the NHS; I've done that and so have plenty of others. (If you want jags not offered on the NHS, like a single Measles for instance, you probably will have to go private for that).

You're right that the Men B isn't being offered to older kids as a catchup. This is because the disease is so rare it isn't considered worth it above one year of age (and it was a borderline decision to offer it to under 1s too). The jag doesn't seem to be massively effective anyway, although it does offer some limited protection, and there are recorded cases of vaccinated babies contracting Men B. But Men B is increasingly rare in babies, and your baby is actually at a lower risk of catching it than your son was at that age (and would have been even if the jag wasn't introduced).

Thanks youcannot

I've phoned my health visitor and suggested the schedule and she agreed and has booked me in.

But already I'm doubting my decision and perhaps regretting calling her as I now need to go back and say I've changed my mind (if I do).

I don't know, I'm just so undecided. I've read some stuff online and people are SO convincing of both for and against. So what do I do? I've no idea what the truth is and if there could be a chance my daughter regresses after her next vaccine. And I'll regret it forever if she does.

But then if she gets one of the diseases and is seriously ill/disabled/dies from it I'll regret that forever too.

But she has had her initial vaccine so perhaps has some protection. Also I got the whooping cough vaccine in pregnancy so I'm not sure if that would still be relevant.

What did the doctor say about the regression? Was there any suggestion of other causes?

There is a lot of stuff on the internet which is very dubious, but which sounds totally reasonable and as professionally produced as the actual scientific stuff. OP please talk through your worries with the nurse, your doctor, another doctor if you feel the need for reassurance - and not a load of strangers on the internet (who may well have their own reasons for persuading you one way or the other). If your DC had problems last time you are understandably worried, but the right people to discuss it with are your healthcare professionals.

We Are still waiting on an appointment with a paediatrician. Our GP seemed concerned but didn't offer any explanation other than a hearing problem which she doesn't have as far as I'm aware.

Thing I see juneae, any HCP I speak to tells me to get the vaccines. They don't seem interested that the two could be related in fact I feel judged and like they think I must be mental.

One has said privately that they understand my worries and would probably do the same in my circumstances but that they can only recommend the vaccines as that's what they've been trained to do.

It's frustrating that healthcare professionals only seem able to give standard advice, and you're definitely not the first person to be told something 'unofficially' regarding vaccines.

Whooping cough would be my main concern in your situation as the other diseases are very rare, but whooping cough is relatively common and most older children and adults are susceptible to it (and can pass it on) without realising. The whooping cough jag you had in pregnancy would only have given your baby a few weeks of protection as its very transient - i.e. the baby gets your antibodies rather than making any of their own. The 8 week jags will have given some protection, but at that very young age babies don't raise much of an immune response and I wouldn't say you could absolutely rely on that either. It's obviously your decision, and you're doing absolutely the right thing in trying to find out as much as you can. Fwiw the 5 in 1 has been in use for 12 years, and is generally thought to have minimal side effects.

Thanks so much you cannot. That gives me more faith that getting the 5in1 is atleast the right thing to do for now and I'll go from there judging on her response to it.

Sorry to come back with more questions but as I understand it the 5in1 isn't available separately but is some of the diseases it protects against available (whilst others aren't?). For example could I get the whooping cough seperate for her?

Unfortunately I don't think there is a single whooping cough vaccine available. This is why even pregnant women have to get the combined jag. The trend in recent years has been towards more multiplexed (combined) vaccines, so it's actually very difficult to get singles for anything anymore. I think even the Mumps and Rubella singles have been discontinued (although you can still get single Measles I think).

To original poster, I hope you don't mind me saying this, but as I read your posts I was wondering if in addition to talking to medical staff about vaccinations, it might benefit you to talk to someone about your anxiety? The incessant handwashing, your constant worrying, etc just doesn't sound healthy to me. It sounds like you've had a lot of stress to deal with (I can't imagine how upsetting it was to see your daughter stop interacting like that) and I'm just worried you're not looking after yourself like you need to. Sending kind thoughts xx

And sorry, just to add that my concern isn't meant to suggest that I think you're overreacting or overthinking the vaccinations, I hope you didn't take it that way.

youcannotbeserious just wondering where your data on the men b being ineffective comes from?
You should be able to get a single whooping cough as it's a single that pregnant women get.
I think you need to make an appointment to discuss this with HCP? I know that it's scary but vaccines protect against diseases which can be life altering at such a young age. I know you want to space them out but that also means that your DD will have an injection every month compared to just getting it over with.
It's also worth bearing in mind that the rotavirus is orally given and so maybe that one would feel a more comfortable place to get started with?

Hi all, just to clarify, unless something has changed in the last week or so (entirely possible!) pregnant women get the dtap - there is no single whooping cough shot.

luna you are absolutely right! My apologies....just shows how clearly my midwife explained what I was getting.

There is no single whooping cough vaccine available. Pregnant women are given it combined with diphtheria, tetanus and polio.
If she's six months, she's too old for the second rotavirus anyway,
I would split the vaccines by a couple of weeks, 5 in 1, Pcv, men B if it makes you happier. You shouldn't have to pay privately to get it done this way. These vaccines are all available on the NHS and I've given them in stages to parents who would have otherwise refused to get them done.

Alfie I didn't say the MenB was ineffective, but it is a lot less effective than other vaccines (and than parents might expect, given the number I've heard saying that they don't have to think about Men B anymore because they believe them to be completely protected).

This is based on a combination of the original lab-based data pre-licencing, which suggests a maximum duration of protection of about 18 months, and the first year's real-world data, which suggests a drop in cases in the vaccinated cohort of 50% (as opposed to 10-15% in the year before the vaccine was introduced - cases were falling anyway). I've also seen data from Health Protection Scotland saying that of six cases of Men B in under 1s in the first full year of the vaccine being offered, most had had one or two doses of the vaccine (three received 2 doses, 2 received 1 dose, 1 had no doses). So while it clearly offers some protection (of unknown duration, but probably not long), and some are hailing it a success, this is far from the complete or long-term protection you might assume it is.

(The site is not letting me post PDFs so I have had to find the links. They may be behind a paywall, but if anyone wants a copy of the Lancet paper I can send it to them.)

www.hps.scot.nhs.uk/resp/wrdetail.aspx?id=71457&wrtype=6

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28100432

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/224896/JCVI_interim_statement_on_meningococcal_B_vaccination_for_web.pdf

Thank you, the links all work so I will take a read. I did already know that if fuesnt protect against all B strains. But I feel if it offers some protection it is worth it to me. I think vaccines are a very important part of our health service that we are lucky to have access to. It also improves herd immunity so that children who cannot be vaccinated are offered some protection. I think that it's also important to remember the seriousness of some of these diseases, polio, measles etc versus very little evidence of side effects.

No worries Alfie, glad they work. I agree with much of what you say, although obviously issues like herd immunity and safety are quite individual to particular vaccines. I'm also a fan of spreading them out more than is currently recommended, as I think that can affect their safety. If effectiveness and duration of protection are relatively low, or of under 1s aren't the main carriers, the herd immunity argument doesn't really apply. Of course it does for others, like polio or measles, as you say. I think the issue is quite complicated, and more honest discussion is required all round.