Unecessary Vaccinations in Newborns

[highlander]

Don't know what the scoop is in the UK, but have found out in Canada that when my baby is 2 months he will have to be vaccinated against tetanus and Hepatitis B.

Hmm, where exactly is a tiny tot going to be exposed to those antigens?

I've fallen out with my DH (docotor) over this. He couldn't answer my question, but gave me a patronsising 'do you think you know better than public health officials' answer.

I don't want our baby's immune system working overtime at such a young age, particularly when there is no clinical indication. Sure, vaccination against communicable diseases is good.

What I haven't told DH is that there is no way our son will be vaccined against Tetanus until he can sit up and spear himself with garden forks, and he's not getting HepB until a few months before nursery (next summer).

FFS, it's only health workers that can get HepB anyway - why oh why do they think babies need it?

just to point out, sprog isn't actually due until September.....

uh-oh highlander, I'm totally with you 100% on this, but vacs are always a really contentious one on mn...beware!

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I agree on lots too!!

I am having another one soon and am already dreading these decisions!

Well I think you are right. Cingle tetanus and Hep B both contain (always I think) thimerosil- giving mercury to a newborn is just crazy.

What's the law in Canada? Even in places like France and the States where vaccination is supposedly compulsary there are ways round it. (In France they accept homeopathic vaccinations instead- and in the states it depends where you are but you can usually get a philosophical or religious exemption).

I'm on a home edding autistic children email list with lots of north americans. I hardly ever post- but if you want me to see if any of them know ways round it do let me know (autism websites are often a good place to get that sort of info!). I'll have a browse in my Vaccine Guide- but I think the information there only applies to the States.

not quite twglett- hep B contains thimerosil! So does single tetanus (actually reading the message again it probably DTaP that's being given- still mercury in hep B though )

all kiddie vaccines in Canada are mercury-free, with the exception of SOME forms of HepB (but you can easily get a merc-free one).

In America, they can force you to have vaccines for nursery, school etc but fortunately Canada is totally different.

I just don't see how on earth my baby is going to pick up tetanus or HepB. I really don't.

Yikes, am I turning into a neurotic mum already?

highlander it was the most worrying and confusing time when i did it all with dd!! Don't worry, you'll do what's best for you and yours

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the point I'm making is not the mercury arguement - I don't see why babies have to be vaccinated against tetanus and HepB when the chances of them meeting those infections in the first 6 months of life are negligable.

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Hep B is fairly controversial -- I mean, basically, you need (intimate!) contact with bodily fluids to get it. How many children does that apply to??

Tetanus can be picked up, IIRC, from eating soil. Better arguments 4 this jab in babies, there4?

a pead in Italy explained that there they routinely vaccinate babues againsty hep b because this way they can be sure they reach the whole population, the longer you wait less people will do the vaccine. That was their explanation. He also added therew as obviously no hurry but to keep it mind when dd became a teenager (and potentiallys exuallya ctive).

I think he might have a point as I'm sure I won't remember it

sorry Twiglett, jump in! I only read on here about the mercury thing a couple of weeks ago - Crikey, it shocked me

It's the first time something has triggered an 'over my dead body' reaction from me - maybe there's something maternal in me after all

One of the best arguments I have heard FOR vaccination with these things at an early age is that your babies immune system is already working in overdrive at this age. From the sterile womb to your not very sterile house, with bugs on everything - of course their immune system is working exceptionally hard at the moment. Therefore adding in vaccines at this point is a good time as the immune system is already up and working harder thatn it ever will again. This is just a theory (My dh's, and he has a big fanclub on MN now, probably about to lose it!!)

The main reason that they do them early is exactly what webmum said - the earlier you do it the more likely you are to cover the whole population, and that is the reason that vaccination schedules are getting earlier and earlier. You need 3 shots of tetanus to get an immune response first time, and so the reasoning is do it early and get it over with. Having taken my dd1 for her booster jags last week I can see the point of doing it young!!

Tetanus doesn't need a puncture wound to get in - it can be got from ingesting the bug (eating mud lol) or from contact with a cut on the skin. I for one am glad my kids have been vaccinated against it, but then we live on a farm so there is more likelihood of getting it!

I do know that hepB has to be done AT LEAST 6 months before you are likely to need the immunity. After 6 months they do a blood test that then shows antibody titres and if they are not good enough then you need another jag and to wait another 3-6 months. We're about to start this with our kids as we are going travelling next year in Central America and I don't want them exposed to HepB if they have toothache! I'm having it too!

Don't want to offend anyone, I normally stay well away from vaccine threads .

me too, susanmt, but just wanted to add that a GOSH consultant told me that a baby's immune system could cope with thousands of vaccines...

Never heard of tetanus being caught from eating soil- it's anaerobic so it needs to be removed form oxygen to flourish (although have heard of it being caught from splinters and soil in deep cuts). Definitely a better argument for tetanus than hep B in a baby- a crawling baby anyway. Unless of course babies mother has hep B herself/ is a drug addict etc- but these are special cases.

Having not vaccinated ds2 at all- the only vaccination I vaguely worry about him not having had is tetanus. Haven't ruled that one out for when he's older.

Bundle- there's story behind the orgigin of "thousands of vacines" figure - which I must dig out and remember because its interesting. Should be pointed out though that even the MOD advised during the last Gulf War that multiple vaccinations should be avoided wherever possible. I would want to ask thhe GOSH consultant whethere he would be happy to have his child/grandchild contract "thousands of infectious disease" all on the same day. The figure always seems to get mixed up with the "there are thousands of microorganisms entering the body every day" argument- which of course there are but very few of them are infectious diseases.

Only problem with that theory Susanmt- is that lots of immunity in a newborn baby is passive - from the mother- especially for infectious diseases- and if you try and vacinate when you have passive antibodies around they'll interfere with the development of immunity. hence the reason that measles vaccination before 15 months so often doesn't work (and isn't counted as even taking place if done before 12 months).

Thanks for that twiglett- wondered whether it was being phased out.