AD's PLEASE HELP - anyone who's taken SSRI's or tricyclics....

[kizzie]

Sorry its me again.

After being awake since 4am and getting in a complete state DH took me to drs this mornign.

(4 yrs on seroxat for anxiety based PND. 2 yrs trying to get off after feeling fine. Eventually switched to prozac. Off prozac 6 weeks.)

Things have really gone downhill since taking St Johns Wort. Feeling very desperate.

Dr has told me to reduce SJW but has also said that I need to go back on medication.

She said to forget about withdrawal and that I need to accept that my brain chemistry has changed since i had children (I never had any episodes of depression before then).

Deep down I still feel that the withdrawal is responsible for this despair but im too exhausted to fight anymore.

I cant look after my children. DH is doing everything.

I dont care if it IS withdrawal - I cant go on like this.

Im sorry if this sounds desperate-thats how I feel.

The dr has said I can either take a tricyclic (like dothiepin) or a different SSRI (cipramil or lustral.)

DH is being brilliant with practical things but is not much good at the emotional support - hes had enough of it all. I dont blame him. And my mother just thinks I should pull myself together.
She cant understand how I could change from the independent, bright lively person I was to this.

My BF has just had a baby so cant burden her with it all.

I feel so alone with it all.

Id really appreciate any advice.

I was so determined to beat it this time.
Kizziex

Hi everyone
The psychiatrist phoned me yesterday.
his view is that a lot of what im going through now could be caused by rebound anxiety due to withdrawal - which has been made worse by introducing the SJW. (which Ive now stopped)

He wants me to take an increased dose of valium (about 5mg a day) for a few days to see if this calms things down a bit. I hate taking tha valium becaus just feel like Ive swapped one addiction for another but dont think ive got much choice at the moment.

He said he'd rather wait a while to prescribe another AD because I'm so sensitive to them but if no improvements in a few days then we have to reassess.

Scares me really that even the psych isnt keen on me taking medication because of associated problems but suppose Ive just got to try and ride it out. he did say that if I do end up on something then it would be started at a very low dose.

Chinchilla - hope things start to lift soon! And ghengis Im glad things are finally starting to improve - Ive followed both your stories closely.

fabarooney - my concerns are about the side effects and withdrawal. When I was taking seroxat no one except family and BF knew I was taking it so I didnt feel 'stigmatised'.

My problem is that in the 2 yrs or so since I tried to come off things have been so difficult. The drs have acknowledged that in my case Ive had extreme withdrawal problems and in the end even when i upped the dose again it just wasnt having any effect - was basically in permanent withdrawal.

BTW - I really really dont want to scare or worry anyone who may be taking or thinking of taking ad's. you can just see from this thread that many many people are helped by AD's. I was too and it is only my particular withdrawal problem that has been an issue. I would hate to think anyone didnt get the treatment they needed because of that.
Kizziex

hi Kizzie, I hope you can get this all sorted out soon, at least you seem to have a good psychiatrist who seems willing to help you through all this. take his advice about ADs, then wait until you have been feeling better for quite a few months before you even think about coming off them again. I wouldn't think of it as failing or taking a step backwards...it seems to me you are slowly working your way forward and you will get there in the end. I'm afraid I can't really give you any advice as i've never been down this road. If you need any advice on herbal remedies (in the future) I'll be here , I still think Rhodiola is worth trying, but maybe not for a while.

Lots of hugs and hope

Kizzie - thanks for your kind thought. I hope things improve for you too

Kizzie - it's good that your psych is taking your problems with Seroxat and Prozac so seriously, and is being cautious about starting you on meds. I've just been told I'll probably be on Prozac for the next three/four years (!) Hope the valium gets you through the next few days OK, and you have a good weekend.

Kizzie, please don't think that I am one of the "take the tablets and shut-up" brigade. I know that everyone is different, and your side effects and withdrawal issues are so severe I'm not surprised you are reluctant to go down that route again. I just really feel for you right now. I remember how desperate, low and worthless I felt before I was diagnosed and I hate to think of other people going through that too. I think it's obvious from all these posts that we mumsnutters (love the description, by the way, Ghengis!) just want to support you and anyone else out there with depression do whatever you need to do to get better. With or without the ADs. Big hugs to you. Hope today is a good day.

Hi everyone - thanks for the messages.
Things still v difficult here. Upped the dose of valium to 4mg but hasnt really helped. Will go up a again probably for a few days and then see how things are.

Saw my original PND counsellor yesterday who is great.

She thinks I'll probably end up on something just to try and get back on an even keel. Because shes seen me on and off over the last few years - when I ve been really bad - and when Ive been completely back to normal even on very small doses, she believes that the problem is withdrawal. But she also thinks that there is no point wasting my life like this.

I had so many great things planned for the summer but am barely able to function at the moment so may not be able to do any of them. Its not fair on DH or the boys (or me) so just need to do something to sort it out.

I really do think I have got phobic about medication now following my experience with seroxat and just need to try and put that to the back of my mind.

Anyway thanks again everyone.
Kizziex

Thing is Kizzie, Seroxat is notoriously hard to come off. I came off Effexor with 'only' one side effect (the 'electric shock' feeling in the brain), which went after two weeks. It was harder with Cipralex, I must admit, but I now know that I was not well enough to come off them anyway, so maybe it would have been easier if I had been. Anyway, still thinking of you. Keep your chin up - contact me privately if you want to.

xxx

Thanks chinchilla - is cipralex the same as Cipramil? Thats one of the ones they are saying as a possibility,
Are you having any good times yet - hope so.
Kizziex

Kizzie and everyone

So glad to hear I'm not the only one on SSRIs ! I had PND 9 years ago and soldiered on, saying I was OK. Ended up on Imipramine because I was feeding my dd. It helped me function, but the depression recurred when we moved house and my dd started school at 4 (stress!) I then took Cipramil and have never looked back.

To me there are several factors. When I had treatment at a day hospital, the psychatrist ( a lovely man !) said that there was no proof that PND and depression in women had hormonal causes. Well sorry chaps, I am firmly convinced that all the problems I have had with depression in the past (BC - before children !) had a hormonal root because they were worse around period time. I don't care if the doctors haven't proved anything, I don't see how men (even the most caring) can possibly know how it feels. I am certain that my depression is caused by a hormone imbalance. The interesting thing is that Cipramil and the other SSRIs help premenstrual tension. My doctor is quite happy for me to stay on Cipramil to cure both !

I did try Prozac and felt extremely sick and ill on it. I think you have to persevere until you find something that suits you. Sure, we'd all love to manage without drugs, but you'd take them for diabetes or a thyroid condition, wouldn't you? I refuse ever to feel so awful again for may family's sake as well as my own and if that means taking medication, so be it.

I think that tiredness can be a big cause of depression. When my dd was very young I am sure that sheer lack of sleep and the constant, emotional demands of a very young child took their toll and made me feel more depressed. It is such a demanding, under-rated job and society keeps giving us these images of perfect mothers who always look happy. No wonder it can be stressful.

My dd is now older and more independent. I did voluntary work and got a new job through it (part-time literacy tutor). I'm sure I felt bad before because I was so immersed in childcare - don't get me wrong, I wanted to be with my dd, but society doesn't make it easy for mothers. It will get better.

Do not feel guilty about needing medication. Another thing - it might be getting your thyroid function checked. My mother felt depressed etc for ages and she turned out to have an underactive thyroid. It can be hard to diagnose because thyroid function goes up and down, but it's worth considering.

Sorry if I've gone on too long. As another Mumsnetter wisely said, it's easy to be anti drugs if you don't need them. If you have been inside that dark pit of anxiety and depression, whcy should you stay there ?

With all the very best to all of you.

Walnuttree

Kizzie - Cipralex is the newer version of Cipramil. It is Escitalopram rather than Citalopram. I am gradually feeling better, although I did have a week last week where I just wanted to be in the house all the time. I am annoyed with myself though, because I was doing so well, and tried to lower the dosage. It was that that kick-started the depression again. How will I ever know when I am ready to come off them?? I think I may be on a dosage of them for the rest of my life

How are you today?

Kizzie, so sorry you are feeling like this, depression is an awful illness and Seroxat withdrawal is a nightmare so I do sympathise. If you want to know more about anti-ds, including SSRIs, this is the standard reference book that doctors use when prescribing drugs, it's got all the up to date information. Click on BNF 47 on the right hand side menu at the top, that's the latest version. Then choose central nervous system from the menu on the left.
HTH

BNF

Walnuttree - do you mind if I ask about imipramine. I dont know if you saw my messages lower down but the drs are suggesting that I maybe go on a tricylcic because of problems Ive had with Seroxat. What happened re. side effects/ how much did u take/ did u come off it before going on the cipramil and if so were there any withdrawals? Hope u dont mind the questions.

Hi everyone else - thanks again for all your messages.
I wont bore u with all the details but things havent improved and in some ways got worse -physically v v weak now plus increasing dizziness.

Virtually impossible to tell what is withdrawal (or not) but TBH im past the point of caring whether its withdrawal.

The increased dizziness might be down to the increased valium (4mg a day now) but again no real idea.

Ive got an appointment with the psychiatrist on the 29th so just over a week to wait.

Although I was so against going back on medication because of my experience with seroxat I dont think I have any choice now.
Anyway - thanks again everyone.
Kizziex

Chinchilla - sorry meant to say Im so glad things starting to lift!
Kizziex

Kizzie

Anything I can do to help is fine. I found I had a dry mouth and felt a bit dozy with Imipramine, but it was OK. I came off for quite a long time before I went onto Cipramil - must have been two or three years. Can't remember my exact doage - not much more than 20 mg a day. It took quite a time for me to feel a lot better - that's the difficulty with any antidepressants.

Yes, I did see that you had had problems with Seroxat. I felt ill with Prozac, so I wondered if another tricyclic would help you more. But I found Imipramine OK and it's worth a try if the others don't suit you.

All the best. Contact me again if you want. Hope things get better soon.

Walnuttree

Hello Kizzie & everyone,

Have been skimming thru your messages feel v. sorry that you have been suffering! I was diagnosed with depression at 16 (I'm now 41) and have been on Prozac for at least 10 years. I went thru 2 pregnancies on it scary but babies seem fine. Just remember: you will feel better! Sometimes, when it gets v. bad, know that you can get help, that you can be treated and that you're not alone. So important to have others to talk to, especially those who have been through it. Depression is agony and a real illness; please don't let anyone tell you to "pull yourself together" or any of that nonsense! If you need meds, for heaven's sake take them & be glad they're available. Sorry to sound bossy but oh! I so sympathise...

hello Kizzie and everyone
I've just found this website.Although one knows that alot of people have problems with depression, its not exactly an icebreaker is it? When I look on the net I can only find terrible stories about how apparently evil/damaging ads are.The fact is I dont feel I have a choice really, I want to live and that means i take the meds.I have had problems on and off since I was 18 (im 41)but was not offered medication until 5 years ago.
When i was young my parents felt that i was just"too sensitive" and that i was being silly.
Depite this attitude I did seek psychiatric help at 18 but was too frightened to continue treatment.
When my parents died i had a major breakdown and went absolutely mad in a public place!!!!I was taken to hosp andatlast taken seriously.
Ihave taken fluoxetine, venlafaxine,mirtazapine,seroxat,buspirone and now cipralex after my latest go on fluoxetine stopped working-very scary.
I no longer strive to get off antidepressants.I know it sounds rather blunt but i find it helpful to think of my brain as actually in some way damaged,it will nolonger function properly without help.
Without ads i cannot physically cope with my kids(normal) conflicts and needs.I feel like i am literally being tortured and that life is a terrible punishment.I Know that sounds bad but its true.The reason i am preparedto try anything even ECT is because I love my dh and my kids, and i know that there is something that can give
us all aquality of life.
Ihope that you are starting to feel better but it does take time.
Finally could i ask chinchilla and anyone else what they feel about Cipralex.Im on 20mg (started 3 weeks ago)Ive had alot of problems with fatigue and needing a nap.But this is also a feature of depression for me.Felt better last 2 days but still go to bed at 830! Also absolutely 0 interest in BD does this improve???
Could of course be effects of footie on tv..!

loopylu

Hello everyone - first chance to get on computer for a while.
5 weeks now since started clomipramine (triyclic).
Unfortuately side effects still severe (v dizzy/shaky/faint/plus v severe constipation,)and although I thought my mood had improved a bit earlier in the week. Now seem to be back to square one .

I just wanted to say thankyou to everyone who posted on here because its given me hope today that I will eventually find something to help.

Fabarooney and susan - if you see this - was it difficult to switch from a tricyclic to an SSRI. I am seeing dr on tuesday and I think this is what he might suggest.
Kizziex

Hi Kizzie,

So glad to see your post - have been thinking about you a lot over the past few weeks. I'm sorry that the tricyclics don't seem to be doing the job. Hang in there. One thing I remember my GP saying was that some people don't suit some drugs but to keep talking to her about how I was and that there were lots of options. Kept me feeling positive that I was going to beat this.

I'm afraid I can't help you on the switch between tricyclics and SSRIs as I was prescribed zoloft / lustral from the start and found it to be an AD that worked for me. I can tell you about the side effects that I had - for the first 10 days or so I felt very tired and had a weird kind of headache. It was not painful but more a feeling of pressure in my head IYKWIM. I felt a bit woozy for the first week too. All these symptoms matched those my GP warned me to expect so I sat tight and waited for it to pass. My mood improved slowly over about 2 - 4 weeks. The mood swings and hopelessness seemed the first things to improve, then the anxiety, then the sleeplessness. I improved steadily for about six months and then plateaued a bit when I had my first really stressful situation since being diagnosed. At that point I went from 50mg to 100mg per day which I'm still on now and am feeling pretty good on.

Hope some of this is useful - forewarned is forearmed! Keep posting to let us know how you are going. Sending big hugs today and tomorrow for your doc appointment.
Fab xx

Thanks for the reply fabarooney. Sorry my message should have to susan and strangerthanfiction. Sorry to get u muddled up.

Have you found that lustral 'numbs' everything or are you still able to have 'real feelings.

I went to see GP today and Ive got a fast pulse and low blood pressure (90/60). She said both are side effects as well as the severe constipation.

One possibility is to lower the clomipramine to hopefully reduce the side effects OR will have to swap.
Kizziex

Kizzie - in the past I have taken lustral, prozac and seroxat (i don't count cipramil as I only took it for one week). I haven't found that I felt "numbed" on any of them, and found prozac the best one of the three, with lustral a closeish second. How long did your GP think that the tricyclic should have taken to kick in? How much longer does she think that it is worth waiting for it to kick in?

In terms of side-effects on starting: don't recall any significant side effects with Lustral, 1st time on Prozac felt a bit jittery/agitated for a few days, 2nd time on Prozac had a mildly dodgy tummy on and off for 2 weeks, first few days on Seroxat felt a bit zombified. I think Lustral is reputed to be one of the better SSRIs in terms of side effects.

I would say that it takes 2 weeks to notice any difference, and a month or two to notice a significant difference.

Thanks for all that info - really really useful.

I think you've told me before but cant remember - what happened with the cipramil?

Kx

Kizzie - not sure if you were directing the Cipramil comment at me or not!!! I noticed no side effects during my week on Cipramil - I felt a bit nauseous, which I put down to the Cipramil, but think it was rather more likely that it was due to being 5 weeks PG, which I hadn't realised. .

Oh I see!! I remember that 'lovely' 5 week nausea...
Thanks for quick reply.
Kizziexx