DS2 (7m) can't eat without being sick

[Laura032004]

DS2 (nearly 7m) has always been a sicky baby, but no-one (MW, HV, GP) seemed worried as he gained weight well (98th centile). They said it would stop when we weaned him. Started weaning at 6+m, but he's still being sick We get maybe 5 mins into a 'meal' and he's badly sick (out of mouth & nose, he knows it's coming and gets very distressed).

Went to GP again a week ago & got prescribed Gaviscon. Since then we've had maybe 2/3 meals out of 30 or so when he hasn't been sick. If we get enough Gaviscon down him (difficult! and he's usually sick before we get to the Gaviscon) the sick seems to happen later than normal & is more dribbly than violent.

I am feeding him baby rice, veg puree, fruit puree, normal meals pureed, veg strips, oatcakes, rice cakes... all thrown up.

Going to try GP again tomorrow. What should he be doing? Any advice at all welcome I'm really struggling with this.

bump

does he eat again after he's been sick?

is it possible he's over eating (I mean, is he cramming in loads of milk around the meals)? I know that may seem like an obvious question but if he's not losing weight (unfortunately) the doctors probably won't take much notice of you (we had this problem with one of our children and bad reflux) BUT, overeating obviously makes the problem worse.

Can he sit up on his own yet? because that milestone can signify an improvement in reflux.

I think I would really be pushing the GP on this one because being sick so soon into a meal doesn't sound like typical reflux (unless his tummy is crammed full already iyswim).

Thanks for your reply

Yes, he does want more milk after he has been sick, as he throws up everything in his stomach. And yes, he can sit up on his own, and throws up sitting up.

Sometimes he's been fed (milk) fairly recently and sometimes he's due a feed when we give him a meal, but he seems to be sick either way.

He wants a lot of milk. Every 3 hours, often more. Including through the night. He used to gorge on milk and throw up, but that happens less often now - maybe every three days, rather than once or twice a day.

He has always thrown up 'foreign' things. He was on ab's after birth due to kidney problems, and threw them up every time (0.8ml). He almost always throws up calpol etc.

anybody else?

My dd (now 2) had reflux which started as as soon as she was born and continued until she was just under a year. I was advised to wean her early, which to be absolutely honest just made the puking muliticoloured! It certainly didn't stop it happening. She was sometimes sick immediately after eating, sometimes after maybe half and hour or an hour. It was violent and spectacular every time!! (through nose etc same as your ds) She was given gaviscon as a tiny baby and all it did was constipate her - she did end up on medication eventually. If your son seems happy and not in pain when he's being sick you might have to resolve yourself to the fact that he's going to do it for a few months more - I honestly think time was the best cure for my dd. She is never sick now and eats very well...

This sounds really strange and terrible for the baby to have to put up with. Also sounds like your GP is not taking it seriously. I would insist on referral to a paediatrician. Go back to your GP and ask him/her how he would feel if he through up down his nose every time he ate and his doctor told him to try gaviscon ffs .

I wish I could help you more but it's been so long since I've had a baby that I can't remember how much they should be eating/drinking milk.

I would say though that watch out for over eating - i.e. if he's had a belly full of milk, don't give him solid food too soon.

Push the GP for a solution - there are medicines that do a better job than the Gaviscon. I imagine the GP might be waiting to see if the Gaviscon does the job before prescribing the next lot. Also, make sure he does a full physical check of him (dd also turned out to have a hernia that was complicating things).

peggotty - thanks for mentioning the link with constipation. DS2 didn't poo for nearly 24hrs the other day (most unlike him - normally poos every 2 hours or so), and maybe this was why. It might have been one of the occasions when the Gaviscon actually stayed down.

itsallabitmuch - do you want to come with me and say that to him

Right - going to insist on referral to somebody.

Laura, I would push for a referral too if I was you. I saw a paed gastro-enterologist who was the one who prescribed the ranitidine etc for my dd. I think Gaviscon is the work of the devil actually, terrible stuff . There are far more effective things your ds could be having. Infant Gaviscon isn't even an antacid, it just forms a sort of barrier on top of the contents of the stomach to supposedly keep them down. (and gives the poor child on it horrendous constipation...! ime)

good maybe it's just a bit of trapped wind then

sorry i have so put this on the wrong thread donlt know how that happened

My DS was like this. He was a possetty baby, then from 6 months he projectile vomitted through mouth and nose his entire stomach contents once or twice every single day. It was extremely distressing and it is very hard to get dr's to listen, especially if you're a 1st time Mum.

Gaviscon did nothing for DS. At 7 months, they put him on ranitidine and domperidome assuming he had reflux. Nothing improved, infact things got worse as ds ended up with lots of throat and ear infections- not eating can't have helped! At 11 months, they put him on losec- he was even pukier on this. Then they eventually did the proper test for reflux (ph probe) and it was neg, so all those meds were for nothing.

By 12 months, we suddenly started having some sick free days and cut down to only morning and bedtime milk feeds. Things got so much better after that, but still gradual and lots of gagging and nearly throwing up quite often. Now at 2 he never throws up- never thought I would see the day. As another poster said, time helped for us as well as reducing milk a little.

For now, do whatever it takes to get help from the dr's. I found that if I said to the GP 'I'm really not happy with this, it isn't right' etc. they would send me to the day assessment ward at the hospital where you should see a paediatrician. It even helps just to have reassurance from someone more experienced than the GP.

Laura you are right to be concerned.

This is not acceptable condition to be in for your child and must be absolutely horrible having this violent vomiting regardless of good weight gain or otherwise.

You must go back to the GP and demand a referral to a specialist as an urgent case.
If your GP is argumentative /unhelpful then get another GP to refer you.
Your baby has as much right as an adult to be treated, dont you let anyone boss you about on this girl!!

Gaviscon : as the other poster says there are much more effective meds than that, its just the first one they try.

(Been in your situation with a sick baby myself and we eventually got it sorted)

Thanks for all those responses.

I think the weight gain is just hiding the issue really.

Could it be reflux though if he is otherwise happy, usually (now anyway!) keeps his milk down (he's 100% bf by the way) and only vomits other things? After a milk feed, he will normally only be dribbly sick. I have to carry cloths around with me everywhere, because he is always being a little bit sick. Maybe this is normal? But DS1 was only sick about twice as a baby, so it makes the comparison seem worse.

I really want to start weaning him properly, so this makes me really sad all the time. He enjoys eating solid food, and the knowledge that each time you spend half an hour preparing food, spooning it down him, getting him and me filthy in the process, knowing it's just going to end in him red faced, throwing up and then screaming is horrible. I'm certainly not feeding him as often as I should be, just because I know what's going to happen. I can't feed him when we're out of the house, because I couldn't deal with this out and about.

bakeacake or anyone else who's had this done - a friend who is a nurse mentioned the ph probe test to me. How was that for your LO?

Right, roll on 8.30am, and I'll start the repeat dialling to try and get an appt today!

Laura- I can't sympathise enough. It is very limiting having a projectile vomitting baby. I felt I had to watch ds like a hawk when we went out and I carried a sick bowl or towel around with me everywhere .

I think the pH probe test is important for you as it will establish whether your ds has reflux or not. The dr's will resist doing it as it involves an overnight stay at hospital. A tube is inserted down your child's nose into their stomach. Once that was done (which is obviously not that pleasant but takes 2 mins max) ds was his normal self. The tube is linked to a machine which assesses whether the child has reflux or not, and to what degree. DS' tube was taken out after 15ish hours but they might tell you it's a 24hr test. If your ds has reflux, the chances are he will just need the meds mentioned before and there will be a great improvement. If not, then at least you know. I was v angry that ds had been given all the drugs for reflux without having the pH probe done.

Really stand your ground with the dr today. They will definitely use the good weight gain as a reason to fob you off so be prepared to argue, shout and cry if necessary- I did all!!! Good luck and let us know.

Meant to say, if he is otherwise happy etc, there might be less chance of him having reflux. If you go on babycentre and look at the reflux board on there, everyone describes their LO's as crying lots and being in obvious pain. DS wasn't in pain and slept well generally. I always doubted he had rflux but reflux is still probably the most likely diagnosis...

Well, saw a different GP today, and got prescribed motilium (sp?) which I think is domperidone (sp?). Will give this a go for a couple of days, and if no joy, she is going to refer him to a paed. At least we give this before the meal, so there is a hope of it working, whereas with the gaviscon, we didn't usually get it down him before he was sick.

Again I had the 'well the main thing is that he's putting on weight'. I want him to eat solids too! Is that too much to ask.

Laura, hello I have had years of dd2 with a very sever form of reflux and she appeared to be gaining weight consistently too.
I am appalled that your GP did not refer this baby immediately.

The ph probe is an essential part of deciding the degree of severity of the reflux if present at all. As the other poster has explained it is a tiny tube that will be fed thru the nose and down into the oesophogus. It will stay there for 24 hours and you as Mum will record when you have fed him and what his movement are.
The results are fantastic and very detailed, how and when the acid from his stomach has come up into the oesophogus.

They also should do a barium swallow at the same time to check for a hernia.
These all sound awful but really arent, no operations, no anaesthetics either.

My little girl was 9 weeks old when she had all this done and they discovered how bad it was.
The medecines we were then able to give her were amazing and saved her life . She is now a beautiful 8 year old (with a dairy allergy that had, in fact been the root of all the problems ).

I do hope you have the courage and strenght to be determined to get this sorted for your child.
If you ever want any advice or help, please do CAT me at any time Laura.

Laura, hello I have had years of dd2 with a very sever form of reflux and she appeared to be gaining weight consistently too.
I am appalled that your GP did not refer this baby immediately.

The ph probe is an essential part of deciding the degree of severity of the reflux if present at all. As the other poster has explained it is a tiny tube that will be fed thru the nose and down into the oesophogus. It will stay there for 24 hours and you as Mum will record when you have fed him and what his movement are.
The results are fantastic and very detailed, how and when the acid from his stomach has come up into the oesophogus.

They also should do a barium swallow at the same time to check for a hernia.
These all sound awful but really arent, no operations, no anaesthetics either.

My little girl was 9 weeks old when she had all this done and they discovered how bad it was.
The medecines we were then able to give her were amazing and saved her life . She is now a beautiful 8 year old (with a dairy allergy that had, in fact been the root of all the problems ).

I do hope you have the courage and strenght to be determined to get this sorted for your child.
If you ever want any advice or help, please do CAT me at any time Laura.

I'm glad the gp listened today. Yes, give the domperidone a week or so but unless there is a great improvement I would go back and ask for an urgent referral. Even though it was a 'time', awful gag reflux and immaturity issue for my DS, I am still angry they treated him for reflux for 4 months without doing the pH probe. My DS kept gaining weight for a while but did eventually start losing it because of the vomitting. Don't let them prescribe something like losec/omeprizole unless he's had the pH study done as this is a very strong adult drug etc. I think they gave it to ds to shut me up but not v. responsible of them imo.

If it's solids that's making your ds more sick, I would hold off on them for a while. My DS only had v. little solids until 12 months due to the vomitting and lots of illness/ loss of appetite.

bakeacake - completely agree with you about being angry about the inappropriate treatment. My GP asked permission today to prescribe the domperidone as it isn't licensed for reflux in DS2's age group apparently. I don't like giving him all these medications (he's been on various things since birth due to his kidney problems), but obviously am happy to do so if necc. If you find out they are actually unwarranted, then it is upsetting.

MrsNoah - thanks for your reply, and kind offer. Interesting to see another child that gained weight even with the vomiting. Glad to hear that it's all sorted now.

I'm strangely not too bothered about him having a ph probe if it would help diagnose the problem. He's had some horrid tests & an operation already due to the kidney problems, that I don't face things with such trepidation any more. That probably makes me sound really heartless doesn't it. I would just like someone to say 'this is the problem, this is what we're going to do to solve it', instead of leaving me feeling like some mad paranoid mother. I almost feel like they are thinking I have that munchhausens thing at times.

Anyway, gave the domperidone tonight, and touch wood he hasn't been sick yet. He ate a lot more than usual, and even though he has got a cough that would normally make him be sick, he kept it all down. He had a puree meal, and an oatcake afterwards. There was a bit of dribbly sick after the oatcake as he struggled a bit with the lumps, but nothing violent. Just got to get through the night now, and I'll know if it's worked, as in the past he has still been sick hours later.

Just thought I'd add my bit! DS2 had reflux from being born & then one day it magically dissapeared at 11 mths. He was under a peadiatrician at the hospital & was on domperidone for about 5 mths which worked for about a fortnight then stopped working! I think if your ds is 7 mths you may well be on the home straight! I know this doesnt help, when ds2 was about 6 mths & puking about 30 times a day (and still put on weight) i thought if HV tells me one more time that he will eventually grow out of it then I will commit murder. When he was 11 mths, one day he'd done his usual 30 odd pukes and literally the next day he didnt do any & it was a few days later that we realised he'd not been sick for about a week and touch wood he never did again. Hope that helps.

Meant to add that at the hospital one of the things they did was to give him a baruim swallow to rule out a hernia.

Thanks for the ray of hope Kath

Just been reading about reflux, and one of the symptoms is heartburn. Hadn't thought about DS2 having this too. He often gets a nasty look on his face after he's been coughing, like he's had a terrible taste in his mouth, so perhaps this is the acid coming back up into his throat and mouth.

For anybody else who suspects that their LO might have reflux, this is quite a good checklist:

There are many different symptoms of GER. Your child may only have a few of these symptoms.

The most common symptoms include:
pain, irritability, constant or sudden crying, "colic" often irritable
frequent spitting-up or vomiting yes
vomiting or spitting-up more than one hour after eating yes
not outgrowing the spitting-up stage yes
refusing food or accepting only a few bites besides being hungry yes
poor sleep habits, frequent waking yes
"wet burp" or "wet hiccup" sounds
bad breath

The less common symptoms of pediatric GER include:
constant eating and drinking (to soothe a sore throat) yes
intolerance of certain foods ?
poor weight gain; weight loss
swallowing problems, gagging, choking yes
hoarse voice ?
frequent red, sore throat
respiratory problems; pneumonia, bronchitis, wheezing, asthma, nighttime cough, apnea, aspiration, noisy or labored breathing snores loudly
ear infections
constantly running nose; sinus infections runny nose
tooth enamel erosion
excessive salvation, drooling constantly dribbling
peculiar neck arching, Sandifer's Syndrome

It's from this website