Is anyone else on a middlish income finding that dentistry is a real luxury?

[Pruni]

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Ok, at the risk of being hounded out of town I think I have to balance this thread a bit.

If you don't deal with dental problems within a short time of their occurence, then the situation simply deteriorates, and ends up costing more to resolve. Thus attending after an absence of several years causes a large bill to result, as there are often several problems to address.

The reason that you can't find NHS dentists is not down to the dentists.

It is down to the GOVERNMENT.

They pay the dentists so badly that for many, it is a loss leading exercise to offer NHS dentistry. For example, a specialist charges £800ish in London for JUST a root canal treatment.

On average, the NHS pays a dentist a total of £60ish for

1. the examination 2)the xrays
2. any cleaning 4)all fillings
3. the root canal treatment.

A decent dentist will spend at least 2 hours on a molar (big back tooth) root canal treatment, and use sundries of the value of approximately £15-£20. Add in the pay for the nurse, receptionist, rates, and the fact that he has had to do all the other work also, and you can see he/she will lose money in this exercise (£60 for 3 hours work before paying staff and other costs)

It's all about priorities. People are willing to spend on non-essentials like satellite TV but not on their health - the one thing you only appreciate when it's gone.

I have no dentist at the mo either, and neither do the kids. Last 2 dentists we have had have gone private, and the very last one said he was refused permission to still treat kids on NHS.

The plan they wanted me to join was £8 each.....like I have that.

do not think that NHS dentistry is the holy grail

we have an Nhs dentist .. still costs a packet .. any treatment you need ends up unavailable on the nhs and you have to pay private eg DH needed a root canal .. he was told it would cost £300 (can't remember might have been £200) ... as an NHS patient he could instead choose and extraction .. they would not save the tooth on the NHS they would only remove it

not much choice is there?

Atlast, I've found something that is better in Germany, we only have to pay 10 euro and get everything done on our state health insurance. If we move back I had better get some sessions booked for the whole family before we come.
Both my parents had their teeth taken out in their early 20's - looks like it will be going that way again in the UK.

So Malory, does that mean that anyone who does a degree - lawyers, accountants etc should work at a loss just because their education was free?

I am with KolaKube about going regularly, but have to say when you;re paying for children as well it can mount up. I am sure my DD's dentist invents problems/treatments for him to boost her earnings. None of her costs are displayed where as the dentist I have just registered with give you a print out of the most common treatments.

I do not begrudge paying for dental treat as long as it is not over priced. However would like to claim back some sort of recompense from the Government since themoney I am paying out is not acutaly benfiting the oral health of me or my family!

Biblio, I was quoted just 45 per large white filling replacement on NHS. I paid a lot more than that i am sure in my private practice.

£45 that was

Sorry that is DH's dentist that makes stuff up!

They do - most practices see children on the NHS and the parents tend to join the practice privately. Loss leader. Pay the dentists properly and you would get NHS dentistry for all.

Paying taxes should mean quality education for all too but parents still opt out and send their children to private schools. If you want quality you sometimes have to pay for it.

Agree totally.

We were lucky enough to be NHS patients for ages and even moved dentist when ours retired - they ahd to find us anoterh NHS place.

Now we've moved darn sarf and no NHS places for love nor money.

I pay £10 a month for "insurance" which is obligatory at my practice, and covers my check ups, plus emergency treatment and if I had a tooth knocked out or something.

It doesn;t cover any on-going treatment of any sort e.g. fillings, extractions, capping, bridging etc.

Luckily my teeth are in reasonable nick. For now.

Who can afford over £200 for a crown? That's an NHS price. Or £77 for a filling? That's also an NHS price.
The NHS is simply not providing dental care any more except for children.

I don't know of any poor dentists, that's for sure.

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Pruni, you'd struggle to afford it within the NHS. NHS dentistry is very expensive. I have weak teeth with thin enamel and deep fissures. Was born with them. It's a bloody nightmare like something out of a Martin Amis book. The cost of it (on the NHS!!) just makes it all worse. I hardly have an unfilled, unbridged, uncrowned tooth in my head.

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bibliophile, I love Martin Amis's stuff when he goes on at great length about the state of his teeth! Grizzly.

Twiglet if your dhs dentist said a root filling was unavailable on the NHS and could only be done privately, and if your dh is a registered NHS patient of this dentist the dentist is in serious breach of his/her terms of service and risks disciplinary consequences.

I am an NHS dentist.I get angry when I hear stories like yours. if I accept a patient on the NHS ( I will take on anyone) I must offer them the full range of NHS services, including root fillings and crowns, not just the stuff that is more profitable. Root fillings and crowns are NOT profitable for an NHS dentist and I completely understand why so many dentists go independant of the NHS .

However if you take on a patient under the NHS you can't pick and choose what you will offer them .

There are still plenty of NHS dentists in the west of Scotland particularly in the Glasgow area. We accept patients from all over the country. We have families who travel from the outer Hebrides and from all parts of Scotland and a few from England . (some from Belgium and a family from saudi arabia)

The most you will pay for a course of NHS treatment in Scotland , no matter how extensive, is £380.
I recently saw a patient for weeks and weeks and did several root fillings, crowns , fillings and a bridge. He paid me £380 and the NHS paid me the rest (the total bill was about £1300 of which I paid more than half to the lab that made the crowns and bridge)He wrote me aletter saying the experience had changed his life as he had not smiled for years and felt like a completely new person.He handed the letter to me on the last day of treatment and said he had written it down because he could not express his gratitude without crying! Some days i really believe I have the best job in the world.

The situation in England is dire. For the same course of treatment the dentist would be paid much less than even the cost of the lab work. It is insane. It is impossible to run an NHS practice in many areas depending on the demographics.

If the same rules come in to Scotland I am giving up dentistry to become a chimney sweep ( there is a huge need locally) as I have no interest at all in becoming a private dentist.

i paid £15 just for check up last week (new charges, NHS, no fillings this time mum, and travel far for my dentist as I do trust him.

I agree that the situation is scary for now and the future and sadly actually dont beleive that we have an NHS anymore - with the pfi schemes now in place us and our kids will pay in taxes huge amounts for hospital buildings and services that will never actually belong to us as a nation but to private companies.
The NHS is too popular a concept for any politican to get rid of, but it has now been done by slight of hand by this awful shower in power!
I'd like to predict a riot, but it doesn't seem to really bother people that much, too busy or dont want to know.

Smile while you can!