Withdrawal or mania???

[BoxofFrogs]

I am trying to come down from my dose of ADs. I have managed to get to 10mg a day from 20mg, and at first only felt physically unwell. However, in the past few days, I have been feeling really agressive and paranoid. In the evenings, I feel like my brain is rushing ahead of me, if that makes sense. I am almost afraid of driving because I feel so weird.

I have looked on the internet for withdrawal symptoms, but paranoid delusions do not come up! The strange thing is that I did not feel like this before I started taking the pills, so I don't think that I still have the depression that I initially started taking them for. I am really worried now though, as it is starting to affect my interaction with people. I was really vague this afternoon at a coffee session, and kept wondering during conversations if I was sounding mad, when I know that I was talking sense. Also, when I am alone or not busy, I start to have thoughts where I invent a scenario and it always ends up in me getting angry at something the person has said. It is all very weird and scary, and I think I'm going mad.

Has anyone else felt this way when coming off pills? I'm so scared, but it is hard to articulate how I am feeling. I am managing to live my life without seeming mad in public, but it is getting worrying.

I think that's a very good point, kizzie - about GPs taking the weaning off process too quickly. I tried to reduce my dose before Christmas and my GP advised that I drop from 40mgs to 20mgs overnight. It was a nightmare: it culminated (after 10 days of hell) in me screaming at both my kids til they were in tears, throwing the youngest onto the settee, and chucking dh's dinner in the bin before having hysterics myself for two hours. I wish I could drop my Cipramil in 5mg increments but the tablets are so small now, and not scored (they don't make a 5mg tablet).

I don't know if how I feel now is due to reducing to 10mgs (surely that would have happened before now?), a return to depression, or that I am not ready to come off them. The thought of never coming off them is not something I'm able to contemplate just yet

Chinchilla - did your GP say that you would stabilise on 10mgs over a year? My GP seems to be thinking in terms of a couple of months...I think not.

MM - My gp wanted me to keep taking 10mg a day until the Winter, start doing 10 every other day, or 5 a day, and then come off them totally when it is Spring again. As there is no need to come off any earlier (no intended pg ) he saw no need to rush the process.

My GP has never suggested reduce my dosage. I did the 60mg to 40mg myself and, when I felt comfortable that I was 'stable' (hah!), I saw him and he prescribed 40mg therafter. He is a very nice man in his 40s but I always leave his consulting room feeling like I am the most neurotic, stupid person in the world. I now avoid going to see him altogether and just use a repeat prescription. Is it worth me going back and explaining this to him, do you think. I feel very low at the moment but as I am so up and down it may just pass. Oh to feel on an even keel again

ghengis - yes it definately worth going back - but (even though hes a nice guy) if you really dont feel like you're getting anywhere with him then you should try and see another dr too to get another opinion on what to do with the medication.
I know everyone always says this - but you will get better even though I know it so hard to believe now.
Kizziex

Marthamoo - in the end I was literally shaving bits off the tablets with a knife to get smaller doses. Also I think pharmacists often sell pill cutters now - they are meant to be very cheap- to help you be more accurate.
kizziex

I'm back again I am really struggling. Yesterday was dreadful: had a screaming row with dh (in earshot of the children, which is something we never do). Ended up sobbing hysterically, thinking they would all be better off without me. Just can't get myself together - feel permanently spaced out, having irrational thought and feelings of panic/anxiety. I feel almost as bad as when my PND was at its height: just can't function properly. Dh and I are friends again now, and we had a long talk and he is trying to understand and be understanding. I need that as the slightest off look or word sets me off again at the moment. I'm a crazy woman

What should I do? Do I keep plugging away at 10mgs or give in and go back up to 20? I can't cope feeling like this. I feel like I am never going to get off these damn tablets and I feel like such a failure.

Sorry. Big Sunday morning downer from marthamoo

MM - I am the same, minus the arguments with dh, who is being very understanding. I have reached the conclusion that I might have to be on ADs for the rest of my life, rather than go through the pattern of depression for 2-3 years, a reprieve for 2 years and then the slow descent into depression again. It is ironically very depressing to think that this is me for the rest of my life, but the difference between a me on ADs to the lacklustre depressed me is worth it, I think. Keep your chin up, and feel free to contact me. xxx

Thanks for replying, chinchilla - I appreciate it when I know you are having a hard time too. Today has been pretty bad. Dh is at work til late and I am running a bath for the kids now - can't wait for them to be in bed. I am going to make an appointment tomorrow to see the GP again. I think she will just say to up the dose again but if she does, so be it. I can't bear feeling like this. I guess if worst case sceanrio is that I spend the rest of my life on anti-d's then that is how it has to be. But my GP doesn't seem to see that as an option - she always talks in terms of "when you come off them." Ah well. Thanks again, look after yourself xx

Chinchilla, ghengis - I found this about coming off SSRIs. I found the section on "Features of Withdrawal/Withdrawal Symptoms" particularly relevant. I think I have all those in the second category apart from flu-like feelings and sweating.

marthamoo. I am no expert but talk to your gp again and tell him/her how you feel. My sister has been on antidepressants for about twelve years and plans to never come off. I came off prozac after pnd but it took a year and was very very slow. My Gp was brill as she kept saying you can alwasy go back on and it made me much stronger adn more determined but I kept some in a drawer for a year just in case!

Hi marthamoo - glad you're going to see the dr.
If you end up going back on 20mgs try not to think of it as failure (or that you'll be on them forever). You will still have halved your dose from 40 to 20mg.
Once you have stabilised on the 20mgs you could then start to reduce again but more slowly.

As Glitterfairy said she came off prozac over a year - and prozac is supposed to be the easiest to get off (it has the longest half life - ie. it stays in the bloodstream longer so there's not so much of a shock to your system when you reduce.)

After 2 years of trying to get off seroxat Ive just come off prozac 20mg over 6 months and even then it really was too quick (really starting to feel effects now.)

Glitterfairy - how are u now?

Hope you get some support from your dr. and you start to feel better soon.
Kizziex

Thanks kizzie and glitterfairy. I will ring tomorrow morning and get an appointment with my GP. I'll try not to think of it as a failure if she says to go back up to 20mgs - the way I feel at the moment I think it would just be a relief. It's so hard, isn't it ?

It IS really really hard marthamoo. I seem to have been going through it forever.
Hope you manage to get an appointment today - let us know what the doctor says.
Kizziex

Marthamoo, my heart goes out to you. Did you get to see your GP? I hope it all went well. Remember, you are not on your own and we are thinking of you.

Thanks for your kindness - it really does help. Janh emailed me too, bless her I have made an appointment for tomorrow so I will let you know how I go on. Still very down

Hi BOF - can you get Cipralex in liquid form, or in 5mg tablets? Sounds to me like you're trying to jump down too quickly - with liquid or smaller tablets you could decrease your dosage in 5mg jumps, might be a lot easier.

Went to see the GP this morning. She thinks I should go back up to 20mgs and "take it more slowly." Will keep posting....

Willow2 - I did go down in 5mg doses, after an initial 10mg drop. I felt so awful that I went back up to 15mg, then alternated 15 & 10mg, then dropped to 10mg. I was fine at first, but then started feeling 'mad', then depressed

MM - I saw my GP yesterday, and he was happy for me to go back up to 20mg, although he seemed a little worried about the manic/agressive trait appearing (never had that before the pills!!) Anyway, if I have to be on them for a long time, so be it. I am feeling SO much chirpier again, after just over a week at the higher dose. Last week, I would not ring any of my friends, because I couldn't believe that they would want to see me. This week, I am more positive in my outlook. I hope you feel better soon too xxx

Chinchilla - so glad you're feeling better!

Marthamoo - hope the GP was supportive and you start to see an improvement really soon. Be kind to yourself in the meantime
Kizziex

I am feeling miles better, after just two days of 20mgs. Glad you are too, chinchilla. Thanks kizzie, for your support

MM, wonderful news. Glad to have you 'back'!

Chinchilla, when I tried 40mg to 20mg I presented symptoms never experienced before. I'm going to see my GP (who always makes me feel like a complete twit) tomorrow to update him. Problem is he doesn't seem to know what to do with me!

It's nice to be back, ghengis. Good luck for tomorrow xx

Thats great marthamoo. Dont worry about the rest of withdrawal yet. Just give yourself a pat on the back for getting down to 20mg and have a break.
When you're ready to come off just do it slowly. (Although if you're feeling anything like the relief I can imagine at the moment you probably couldn't give a sh** about ever coming off. )

Ghengis - sorry feel like im wittering and repeating myself here. Apologies if Ive already said this ten times.
40-20mg is too big a drop in one go. Some experts suggest reducing by no more than 10% at a time but at the higher doses you can sometimes get away with about 25%. So for you maybe try going down from 40-30mg and see how you feel. if any probs then go up again and reduce by 5mg.

Wait on each dose until you feel stable and then reduce again.

Its a faff because you have to cut small bits of tablets but you can get pill cutters at the chemist (just have to make sure you dont leave the bits lying around which Ive always been paranoid about.)

Then from 30mg reduce by 5mg at a time down to about 10. Then maybe even slower from 10mg.

I know its sounds like such a long process but it really isnt worth rushing it.

Hope it goes ok with the dr.
Kizziex