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Original poster

The way alcoholism is treated ...

29 replies

MrsBeDreadingTrickOrTreat · 18/10/2006 14:49

couldn't think of a better title, but just taken a friend to see GP because she's temporarily lost her battle with alcohol. Not surprised with all that she's got on her plate but that's another story. I just had to vent about the way 'they' seem to be treating people with alcohol problems... to me it seemed as soon as they see anything alcohol related the paw them off to AA or gateway because it's alcohol related.

Wouldn't it make more sense to ask 'why', i.e. maybe because they suffer from depression, and give general non-alcohol related counselling???

I sort of suggested it to the nurse mentioning that I had suffered from depression and thought I'd recognise some of my friend's triggers and whether it might be a good idea to maybe go for general counselling. The nurse went 'I guess she could'!!! Wouldn't it be logical?

sorry for ranting as I probably am not making much sense. I'm just so desperate for my friend to get the help she needs because she WANTS help

OP posts:
fortyplus · 18/10/2006 16:10

Don't reject the AA idea - I know someone who was literally in the gutter and has managed to stay dry for 9 years with their help. They have a 'mentoring' scheme whe you receive support from someone who has been through it - they seem to be good at matching people with a mentor from a similar background.
Your friend is extremely lucky to have your support. Good luck.

zippitippitoes · 18/10/2006 16:12

It's not generally considered beneficial to have counselling until the drinking is curtailed so the steps are to cut alcohol and then rebuild with counselling ads etc if necessary

Original poster
MrsBeDreadingTrickOrTreat · 18/10/2006 16:15

thanks for the replies. My friend has been registered with the NHS alcohol unit and didn't find it beneficial at all. she at the time (she had managed to get 'dry') did request referral to somebody who can help her resolve the issues but that never materialised.

zippi surely wouldn't it be beneficial to find out WHY sombody is drinking not just THAT they are drinking? Granted they need to get the poison out of the system but if nothing is done to actually help resolve the trigger...

OP posts:
zippitippitoes · 18/10/2006 16:17

I think it's because alcoholism is a very hard problem to crack and unless you stop therapy whether drug or talking isn't much help and in fact ads are contra indicated with alcohol

and the AA are the acknowledged experts in the field

foxinsocks · 18/10/2006 16:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

WigWamBam · 18/10/2006 16:24

My sister is an alcoholic. Until they realised that her problem is caused by her very serious mental health problems, not the other way around, none of her counsellors or mental health nurses would go anywhere near her when she'd been drinking. Which, of course, is when she needs them the most.

You'll probably find that if they work out that your friend's alcohol problem is caused by mental health problems, they will treat her very differently. Until then she will be just another drinker and counselling won't be offered - she'll certainly struggle to see anyone if they think she's still drinking. That's been our experience with my sister, anyway.

If you really think that the underlying issue is her mental health, push for counselling as hard as you can. Getting the mental health team to recognise that my sister wasn't just a boozer has been really hard, but she is being treated so differently now that they have looked further than the drinking.

Original poster
MrsBeDreadingTrickOrTreat · 18/10/2006 16:27

zippi the thing is though my friend told the nurse 'I want and need to stop TODAY' can you give me something for the pain, to which she was told to get in touch with gateway, who of course haven't been in touch yet. She knows that she has to stop and wants to right now but they weren't very sympathetic to that. wtf???

My friend was really berating herself, but I told her to stop that because she at least was still able to call me for help!

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsBeDreadingTrickOrTreat · 18/10/2006 16:32

WWB thanks for that. I am very certain that my friend suffers from depression, be it a mild form or dormant pnd. Without giving away too much... mother died a few years back, no family support here in UK, single mum, child's father vamoosed early on, hasn't paid a penny, so rough times for her having been successful in job and until recently 'condemmed' to be on benefits due to circumstances. 4 years on dad suddenly wants to see child and threatens legal action. And that's the tip of the iceberg... however because she 'made the mistake' of consoling her troubles with alcohol and getting dependent instead of e.g. driving her car into a tree or sltting her wrists... she never got the benefit of being diagnosed with depression

OP posts:
MrsOhHu · 18/10/2006 17:29

I don't know much about the treatment of alcoholics in NHS. I had a friend who was sent away on a retreat for several months a long way from home. She was much better and things were looking up. The place was closed down and she had to return to her home. Everything went downhill very quickly. She had to dry out in hospital and was given huge doses of vitamins and drugs to keep her heart going and to stop her shaking herself to death. The drugs that are supposed to help you not drink didn't work very well for her. She saw all sorts of doctors and psychologists and had therapy. The whole thing was compounded by an eating problem. It's hard finding something else to do when your time is blotted out so well. Alcohol Concern may be able to help. AA may be helpful. It is very difficult to get any help at all when drunk apart from to dry out if it is dangerous to do it alone. I do hope you manage something. It's not easy for you, as a friend.

Original poster
MrsBeDreadingTrickOrTreat · 18/10/2006 18:33

MrsOhhu that sounds awful! One thing that really irked me too was that the nurse told my friend not to come in when she's drunk!!! ffs she went because she can't stop drinking so how the hell is she supposed to be sober? I'm guessing the nurse meant blind drunk and stumbling all over the place?

My friend defo could do with a break at a retreat but a) what would she do with her child and b) it probably costs money she so desperately doesn't have

Thanks all for your input

OP posts:
amynnixmum · 18/10/2006 18:43

I used to work in a rehab and lots of people who have drug or alcohol addictions also have another mental health problem. More often than not this problem was undiagnosed. the problem is that when people are still drinking or using it is difficult to help them in other ways. We followed a 12 step based program of therapy which is taken from AA/NA but we certainly covered all angles of the persons life. We found that most mental health teams are reluctant to take on using addicts/alcoholics and we therefore used to help people get clean/dry so that they could access the other help they needed. Quite a lot of our residents went on ADs while they were with us and this definately seemed to help the stay clean.

Don't dismiss AA - its not for everyone but it is hugely supportive and in spite of any other mental health problems your friend may have it can still help her stop drinking. I would be very surprised if no-one else at the meeting didn't also have depression or hadn't suffered with it in the past. The most important thing is that she wants help.

amynnixmum · 18/10/2006 18:45

The place I worked for is a charity run rehab that had 3 rehabs up and running when i left to have ds and no doubt has more by now. We sometimes had people who funded themselves but it was usually the local borough that funded treatment so your friend shouldn't have to fund it herself.

Surfermummystomb · 18/10/2006 18:46

I work in a drug and alcohol in patient unit as an administrator (so don't go asking anything too technical!). We have people referred to us to detox from alcohol and they stay for a fortnight, and then get referred on to another unit for further support.

We can also refer people for residential treatment where they go for longer periods. They get funding for this through social services. They do have to have tried detoxing in the community or via our in patient unit first though.

She might like to consider being referred back to the NHS alcohol team, even if she didn't find it that helpful last time, it doesn't mean it isn't going to be this time, and via them she might be able to access a bit more support.

twocatsonthebed · 18/10/2006 18:50

MrsBe, I couldn't agree with you more, as my family has been on the receiving end of just the same behaviour.

Several years ago, my mother - who has drunk to varying degrees for many years - went to her doctor to try and stop drinking, and found it almost impossible to get any sense out of the NHS at all, which made me furious. She didn't want to go to AA, for various reasons, and so got almost no help at all from anyoe.

Like so many people on here, she was self-medicating to cover up serious depression (a very messed-up childhood, first child who died at birth, divorce and so on), but they wouldn't even treat her alcohol abuse. I managed to find her a local counsellor, who treated her at a discount, which has helped quite a bit, but then we are lucky enough to be able to afford this. (But your friend might find someone who would see her at a very reduced rate? Easier to cope with than rehab if you ahve a child.)

Quite apart from all of the personal pain and suffering that could be avoided, I thought that it was a pathetically short-sighted attitude. If you can help even some people with their addiction, even the people who want to be helped, surely this saves the NHS a vast sum of money in the long term.

Sorry for slight rant, this is a sore subject with me as well.

Original poster
MrsBeDreadingTrickOrTreat · 18/10/2006 18:50

14 day rehab would be rather damaging I think, as I said there's a kid there.

Also I've known her for quite some time and until recently didn't even know she had a 'problem'. She seems to be the occassional binge drinker type, and it 'only' seems to take one day of slightly overimbibing to get her into a state where she will experience withdrawal. Is this normal? Also she won't eat when she's like that.

OP posts:
zippitippitoes · 18/10/2006 18:51

amynnixmum put it much better than me!

I agree that mental health problems co exist with/lead to alcohol abuse as self medication

amynnixmum · 18/10/2006 18:58

Addiction is a personal thing. We used to say that heavy drinking didn't neccesarilly mean you were an alcoholic but a few drinks that effect your life are cause for concern. Its all down to whether your drinking has a negative impact on your life and yet in spite of this you still drink. You don't need to drink every day or wake up to a finger of vodka. I personally haven't come across withdrawal symptoms in anyone that wasn't a regular heavy drinker but I suppose in theory its possible. You also need to be aware that she may not be being entirely truthful with you about the extent of her drinking- I know this is hard to think about but its really very common.

MrsOhHu · 18/10/2006 19:04

It's not normal to get withdrawal symptoms! It is easy to forget to eat when you are bingeing. As I understand, the body can become unable to process food properly, so eating really can become a problem. A 2 week rehab sounds ok - it takes a bit of time for the body to get back to normal, and the docs will want to watch to check for serious problems that come with stopping drinking (it can be dangerous to stop). The people at Alcohol Concern are helpful. The NHS has some extraordinary things - they ran this place my friend went to- they also have caravans dotted around the country, so you can go on an NHS holiday!! You could do it 10 years ago anyway!

zippitippitoes · 18/10/2006 19:05

I think the NHS do heavily rely on the AA..even mental health in patients are encouraged/sent to AA meetings

Surfermummystomb · 18/10/2006 19:09

Possibly because they don't have the resources to cope with the volume of referrals they get, zippi.

amynnixmum · 18/10/2006 19:09

I just wanted to add that the problem with treating a dual diagnosis of alcoholism and depression (or another mental health issue) is knowing which one came firstm and how the 2 interact. You may well be right and your friend may be drinking to self medicate due to the stresses of her life but unfortunately for lots of people the drinking is also the cause of a lot of the stress. Alcohol is also a depressent which will further lower her mood and ability to cope with what is happening in her life. I understand your frustration. When i worked at the rehab we were one of the only places in the country willing to take on people with a dual diagnosis. However we weren't in a position to really treat any underlying mental health problem as our expertise was addiction - instead we managed the other problem as best we could and treated the addiciton so that the resident would be able to access the help they needed for their depression or whatever it was they needed help with.

Surfermummystomb · 18/10/2006 19:11
amynnixmum · 18/10/2006 19:12

Waving back surfer - is our borough still rubbish at funding?

EliBoo · 18/10/2006 19:45

I would second just about everything that amynixsmum has said...very lazy of me not to say it all again, but basically I agree.

Also, with regard to re-hab and children...as long as things are handled sensitively in terms of where and with whom a child stays whilst his/her Mum is in rehab, it can be a wonderful option. If its the right kind of place - one that won't dismiss underlying concerns/dual diagnoses - a child can only benefit from a parent getting help. And sometimes a Mum needs that space away from being a Mum in order to acknowledge and deal with other aspects of her life. All the ones I know of allow visits, too.

I'm not saying its the only way, by a long chalk - but I wouldn't dismiss rehab on the grounds of there being a child, far from it.

EliBoo · 18/10/2006 19:45

that would be amynnixmum - sorry!

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