The Back Pain Emporium, Internet Shopping, Drugs and Dealing with Doctors. Thread 6.

[MatildaTheRedNosedReinCat]

For anyone experiencing back pain it can be a very scary time. What is wrong? Who can help? How long will this last? We,on this thread are here to support you;offer empathy and help to navigate the almost impossible task of getting a diagnosis and the right treatment.We are not doctors but people who have trodden this path slowly and painfully. We also chat a LOT and welcome all newcomers. It is strictly non competetive regarding pain and no niggle is too minor.

Those who have long term back problems know that the best way to help manage back pain is to internet shop for shoes, bags, and back support devices. Those who are new to back pain, these are important lessons to learn. And here within this thread is where you will learn those lessons.

You will also find other helpful advice on pain management, different treatment options from hydrotherapy and physio to surgery, experiences of others navigating the big and scary medical world, both private and NHS (and abroad from the UK) too, as well as issues around work, being a parent while managing pain and disability, and the impact on the relationships around us. Not to mention the pain of dealing with claiming disablity benefits .

Between us all, we have a huge wealth of knowledge and experience, and more than the practical advice, the jargon and information, we know what back pain is like, how much is affects everything around us, and sometimes, all we need is to have people listen who Get It.

We talk painkillers regularly,sometimes drink wine , have hot water bottles and wheat bags galore, and hold hands a lot. It's potentially all very Unmumsnetty as we do actually show some lovin' from time to time, although we Never Ever call each other hun.

If you have advice, need advice, need a hand to hold, want to do some shopping, then come in. We are friendly. We talk a lot. Come in, have a brew and say hello

This is our 6th thread, here is the 5th, which has links too the others:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/a2203923-Back-Pain-and-Internet-Shopping-Thread-Number-5

hi all. Thanks for well wishes. I had a visitor today in hospital, thank you matilda for the coffee, cake, smellies and most importantly your lovely, kind company and care.

After a shocking morning of vomiting and headache that I had thought I had managed to avoid, I recovered from that back to pre vomiting status, and have walked to and from toilet, practised getting up from bed etc, tomorrow I will do stairs. If I can avoid more throwing up I can go home tomorrow. Really looking forward to getting back to my family, missing them lots now.

freedom how are you feeling now yourself? Recovery going ok? loon go to appt, nothing to lose, although I completely understand your frustration at the feeling of bashing head against wall, inconsistent info etc. you might be pleasantly surprised. Although, obviously I can't guarantee that. Personally, I find pain clinics frustrating, because they have, in my own experience, promised things that they then retract, so I never know where I stand in my treatment plan as it always changes, for no reasons I ever understand.

However, my surgeon has written to my gp, stating he considers that I will need facet joint injections post surgery, to manage back pain. So, it will be harder for pain clinic to say no. I expect they will give it a good try.

Just popping in to wish you a good low pain night (and no nausea) Pavlov - and good enough to be allowed home tomorrow. Best wishes for your journey home too.
Loon I attended a chronic pain clinic (for another condition) with very low expectations, but found it oddly helpful. I was allocated to an OT who helped me with pacing - which wasn't at all why I went there, but proved to be helpful for me. She was both sympathetic and positive which helped ( not the nothing we can do attitude I had encountered from other HCP). I thought I had already cracked pacing but the OT could step back better and see that tweaks were needed. It looks like I may be going back (spinal pain clinic this time) -possibly for injections.

loon I find that if you dont "try what's offered" the system turns against you so I would go along with skeptical head on.that was my Approach when offered acupuncture and yes it didn't work but I avoided more awkward patient labels been there

fingers crossed for you tonight pavlov.

Hi all.
Gave laptop to chap at work today to install new classroom screen software and now cant get on to internet at all! So sorry to be brief. Sorry Pav that you are sicky. Hope they let you out tomorrow.
My day went OK despite viler than normal behaviour from post christmas class.

sounds like you are coming on great there pavlov - hope the journey home isn't as bad as you anticipate but you will be glad to get there for sure - how sweet of Matilda to visit, it gives me the warm fuzzies (like tramadol or diazapem haha!)

hope everyone's back, mouth, gorilla, whatever is having an ok day - I am almost hysterical with happiness at the thought of giving up work - am bursting to hand in notice but want to get the bonus first (no surprise as its only the money has kept me there these long 6 years)

Hope the pain's easing up a bit today, Pavlov. Yes, it's lovely to think of matilda visiting, isn't it - at the warm fuzzies like diazepam.

Well, I guess I will go to the pain management team thingie then. It's just that my GP has already told me they don't have anything to offer, so I can't help feeling it's a waste of time. I know they won't be referring me to any AT teachers, alas - there isn't a single one registered anywhere in my area!

A huge wad of paperwork came with the appointment details, stuff I need to fill in that's kind of frustrating (questions where you have to rate your ability to do x,y &z, but which take no account of all the day-to-day variables).

I'm also anxious about them trying to interfere with my pain relief. There are lots of questions about that & they want me to bring details of what I'm taking etc. - but I feel happy with my GP managing that side of things. They can't supersede your GP in terms of medication, can they?

Aaaaaargh, I keep posting long posts, and they keep disappearing. Not sure if it's the iPad, or maybe me doing something wrong due to too many meds

I'm doing well. Home is the plan!

I'm finally plucking up the courage to join this thread - it had me near hysterical at times, not in a good way . Anyway, you all seem a lovely supportive bunch so I thought it would be rude not to . I'm just after a bit of advice really and perhaps a hint & tip or two.

I first had what I was told was sciatica 18 years ago when I was pregnant. I've had a few flare ups over the years and the sciatica has now developed into full blown agony - tut. I visited a doctor on one of my flair ups probably about 15 or so years ago and was told the only thing that would help would be to lose weight. Twat.

I am now in a new area and have seen physios over the last 12 or so years who have helped. I went to my current GP for the first time about my upper back (which is a relatively new thing starting in May 2013) and he suggested physio and painkillers if needed. I've been to the physio and he helped greatly with the upper back but because he asked me to bend on each of my three visits my lower back has gone into meltdown. I did say to him at the time but after discussion did it anyway. It's always two days later that things really kick off.

Anyway, at Christmas time I could hardly move, couldn't even lift my arms without extreme pain, and eventually took paracetamol and codiene. By god, I love that stuff - wish to hell I'd tried it before. What a revelation! Two days of that and the pain had calmed down a bit and localised itself so is more copable with now.

Hope I've not bored you all with TMI but I thought it would be handy to give a bit of background. So at the moment I'm not able to do the exercise which is supposed (I think) to push the disc back in as the pain's just too much. By mid afternoon I'm more able to bend but if I do it too much it antagonises the problem. I'm going to rehab pilates next week so have high hopes for that and have another appointment with my GP. I see from the first post that you can help with getting the best from the GP - could you give me some guidance with that, please?

Lastly (hopefully ) can you give me any hints & tips about drying feet after a shower if you can't bend? Is there a device? I see there are things for putting socks on and I'm considering getting one of those as I'm fed up asking my husband to do it every day.

Thank you if you've got this far

Hi Hex don't feel shy! I was shy when I joined and nearly left a time or two thinking I might be a bother to people with worse problems than me but I was saved by a rat!
Anyway. Firstly you have to keep going back to the GP. I wasted many years doing what I was told and bearing it in silence. I think you can be getting some stronger pain relief like tramadol firstly if you are suffering so much. The GP will first try you on something weaker but you have to tell them if you are still suffering and immobile before they will try you on something stronger. I wondered from your post whether you worry abut taking painkillers but I have found it beneficial to hit the pain with whatever I have in straight away in order to break the cycle of spasm and pain.
Another thing is to allow yourself to recover. Do what you can - move about and do what you can but let your self rest too - you need to heal. (learned that on here and it's true!)
The physio sounds a bit messed up so not sure what is going on there. Also feel a little concerned about doing any further damage if the Pilates you mention is not tailored just to you?
Anyway...there are people who are far more knowledgeable about this sort of stuff so they will put me right if I've said anything wrong and fill you in on what I've missed...it was just that no-one had replied when I saw your post just.

How's it going Pav?
I want Matilda to come and see me too!

Oh yeah....you might need a strong anti inf-amatory and stomach protector too fro the GP. Like I say keep going and moaning at them. I think I saw them as somehow omnipresent and only giving me what I truly needed and deserved where as they were in fact following a formula.
First visit - lose weight /take paracetamol
Second visit - Try codeine
etc

Hi Hexie, nice to meet you and welcome but sorry you need to be here.

So, it sounds like a long term problem which is currently acute and causing sciatica and lumber pain. As you mention, this does sound a lot like a disc problem but only a scan can confirm this. I would be pushing for this because treatment can only be aimed correctly if you have an actual diagnosis. Because scans are expensive be prepared to push for this. I don't have an upper back injury but still get pain there at times because there are huge long muscles that run from the top to the bottom of your spine and if they spasm you can get pain anywhere. (The lumber pain you are getting after bending down sounds a lot like spasm).

Re medication, mixing different types of meds will give the best results. Spasm responds well to heat, massage, anti inflammatories and when all else fails, diazepam. Back pain does respond quite well to paracetamol and, if necessary, codeine ie cocodamol. Leg pain which is caused by pressure on the nerves, often from a prolapsed disc, is often most receptive to nerve meds such as gabapentin and/ or amytriptiline. So you can end up with quite a cocktail of meds but much better pain control than just taking bigger and bigger doses of opiods. As Berrie says, if taking anti inflammatories ie naproxen you need to take with food and also take a stomach protector.

You mention an exercise to push the disc back...not sure what this is but I would be very wary, it's easy to make things worse by mistake. If doing rehab Pilates, go through your history in detail and start very low. I do a class sometimes and although I have done Pilates for years it is still dodgy in a class because everyone has different needs so be careful.

When pain is acute think of it as your body telling you something (LOUDLY) and rest. Rest, potter, rest. It's all very well to tell people to keep moving as usual but in severe situations this isn't the right advice. Move a little,rest a lot.

Are you working? If so you might need to ask for workplace adjustments. If you tell is more we can offer our experiences.

Finally, the shower. Sorry, no answer for this. I shuffle on the bathmat and bedside rug then that has to do! Sometimes I can lie down for a few minutes to allow the air to do the job. Maybe someone else has a better idea .

Hope that helps a bit. Keep posting, we are happy to chat if all else fails

lol @ that rat

welcome hex - I used hubby for drying and for sock duty but I believe there is a sock putter-oner - not sure how to google that but found this on first attempt:

www.boots.com/en/Pharmacy-Health/Health-shop/Mobility-daily-living-aids/Getting-dressed/

Do NOT neglect your feet ladies even if it means asking for help - I ended up with a fungal infection which I can't get rid of cos I neglected mine! Then again its pretty harmless I think but not looking at google for that just in case Air dry is probably ok? Or hairdryer? (brainwave! haha)

As you can see I am back on line properly - hooray!
Work was fine in the end. Bit stooped and hobbling by the time I got chucked out by the Caretaker. Typical first week back. As a class they were horrid again today (not the majority just a handful who can't behave) I have a slightly sore throat from shouting raising my voice which I am not proud of . I marked form 3.30 until 6.30 and have still brought home a load of books which need to be marked and returned by Monday - Yikes! I found 2 books with no work in them at all. What did they do all afternoon? How did I miss it? Made me hopping mad! To be fair I had 9 different activities investigating sound going on around the classroom involving things such as megaphones, recorders, twanging rulers and knocking on the table. Not to mention the rocks above and underneath the water, string telephones, elastic band guitars... and I'm wondering how I missed things or felt rather stressed. I might not do it quite like that next time!
Sorry moaning on again.

Hi. Hope I'm ok to post here...
I'm 3.5 months on from two surgeries on my back, and still having some issues.

I was suffering terribly with sciatica, and numbness in my leg and foot - very badly for about 5 months, which suddenly got much worse and had to be rushed through.

I had a bilateral double discectomy (L4/L5 & L5/S1), nerve root decompression and laminectomy in September. I actually had one surgery (discectomy/disc trims & nerve root decompression) then reherniated before I even got out of hospital after a couple days. I had another surgery, as my L5/S1 had basically exploded, and bits gotten under my spinal nerve, and he had to do a laminectomy to get in there, and allow some space. I felt amazing after the second surgery, was home within 48 hours, back to work in three weeks, and did long haul flights to see in laws in NZ 6 weeks later. All good.

However, I feel like I've really plateaued over the last month. I'm down to about 1/4 of the medication I was on before the surgery, but feel like I was improving so super quickly and well, and now it's stayed the same for about 6 weeks.

If this is it, I can live with it, because it is so much better, but there's still things I feel I can't do. I have DD 5 and DS 2.5 and still struggling to do some things - I don't lift them (other than when DD fell in the swimming pool at PILs) but that's hard for them. I work long hours (largely desk/meeting based), have a 40 mile commute each way (driving) and I know these things don't help.

I guess I'm just feeling a bit sorry for myself tonight, and hoping someone will tell me a tale of improvement for them.

Just dropping in, worked again toaday, didnt stop for 6 hrs, feet are hurting, and back is definitely getting worse. I have gine to head receptionist again, she told me to put it in writing so will ser her tomorrow, we had new admission today, again another hoisted person its getting harder and harder, my doc has told me to go back to him anytime and he won't hesitate to sign me off, but I feel a bit of a failure if I do that, but the more it hurts the more tense I get then the more pain, its a vicious circle.

Thank you for the lovely welcomes x

My feet are itching as we speak! I had used the hairdryer but can't separate all my toes enough to do a proper job. Thank you for that link, ally, think I'll definitely get one. I've got a long handled shoe horn and that has been very handy.

The pilates is a one to one with a recommended teacher and I've spoken to her a couple of times on the phone and she sounds like she knows what she's doing. Don't worry, I've learned my lesson - no more bending on demand.

I forgot to say I had had x-rays but lots of folk have mentioned an MRI scan so I think I'll have to ask the doctor for that. Matilda that's exactly what I think - how can you treat something that you don't know exactly what it is. I think as I've only seen this doctor once for the back pain and he sent me straight away for x-rays I'm hoping he'll not just fob me off.

I tried ibuprofen for both areas and it didn't help. The codeine was fab and I'm quite happy with that just now. Hopefully I'll never need anything stronger - not because I'm reluctant to take them, just hope I won't need to!

A previous physio told me that the pain I feel on bending is possibly the disc bulging and hitting on the nerve. I know that if I feel that pain too much then I will have a bit of a flare up and it'll spread but really that's the pain that is the problem, the other stuff I can ignore (I can say that now that the hopefully worst of the spasms have passed ) or take something for, I know that central pain is the warning IYSWIM so do my best to avoid it.

It's so good to speak to other folk who understand, who think it's alright not to do everything normally, keep doing the exercises, work through the pain. Sometimes these things are just not possible.

I'm not working, thank goodness. Hell's teeth, it's been hard enough just being at home over the last few weeks.

Berrie, a real rat?? Do I want to hear that story?

I'm no pusher Hexy and I might be quite wrong but you sound to me like you are really suffering. Does the codeine take your pain away entirely? If so - why can't you reach your feet? Honestly - not being scared of the tramadol this week was a revelation to me. I jut thought - bugger it - this really really hurts - I'm going to get it down my neck for a change. It worked for me this time. Dunno. Think about it.
I think you probably had to be there for THE RAT - feel free to go back to the previous thread!
Casper That sounds truly horrendous and your specific situation sounds so complicated I should pass on it and let someone who knows more talk to you. However - I'm feeling chatty so I'll offer my opinion anyway!
You sound like you are doing really well to me and shouldn't be too down hearted. It took me a good year to recover from my discectomy by which I mean I could say that I no longer had a back problem. That was 7 years ago. I'm only here now following a fall which set me of again to a lesser extent. I had small DC at the time and it's incredibly hard to get the opportunity to rest in the way that I have found beneficial this time (now they are at school) and can look after me this time
Are you able to find time to lie down at work. Even ten minutes can make a difference for me. Can they get/ have they got you a better chair? Do you have a heated car seat? You can get strap on ones on amazon cheaply.
Pink It's not worth hurting yourself again. Have a week off to rest. Your work are never going to look after you. You have to do it for yourself.

hi folks and welcome caper and he xi. I hope you get some good advice from these lovely and oh so knowledgeable ladies
pavlov- glad things are going well and you are looking homeward
pink- just be careful, please, although hoists, standaids and other devices are a huge improvement on past very dodgy manual handling methods, (yes Matilda, I do remember the Australian lift, worked great if you had another person very experienced, but that was a rare occurrence! ) they can still put a strain on your back if the 2 users don't work together properly.
I had a very embarrassing situation yesterday - I had got quite constipated (sorry if tmi) from the meds, and finally got things moving yesterday, to my great relief, then I went for the toilet roll, oh dear, didn't even think about it until it was required, but I cannot reach the appropriate area when wearing a full body brace I had to ask my poor, long suffering dh to help me, which really goes above and beyond a husbands normal duties

It's meant to say welcome casper and hexi, blooming auto correct

Ha ha ha Bubs I think you will find a few of us have been there! Or at least had to weigh up the agony against the embarrassment and make a decision about whether to ask!

Pink, I haven't read your previous posts so don't know your circumstances but just have to say I don't think you'd be a failure to take time off work to help your ailing back. Speaking from experience, if you don't listen to it when it shouts at you it'll only get worse

Listen to me, just joined the thread and putting my two penneth worth in

Berrie, most of the pain has gone for now, it's just when I bend that the whatever it is nips and I don't really feel that justifies taking painkillers for because it only hurts for a few seconds. Believe me, if it spreads and becomes more sore I'll have no hesitation in taking painkillers, just wish I'd done it earlier and I might not have got so bad at Christmas time. Tut.

Lots of cross posts - hello Bubby. Yes, been there!