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Original poster

vaccinations: is anyone choosing not to?

65 replies

Heathcliffscathy · 26/03/2004 10:16

due to having read up on the risks and controversy surrounding benefits in homeopathic type books...not just mmr, all vacs...if so, did you come up against lots of resistance/agressive pressure to vaccinate with people telling you you were putting your child at risk of death...

OP posts:
Chandra · 26/03/2004 14:05

Yes and you forget in the middle as I did...

Chandra · 26/03/2004 14:06

with that "you" I meant an hipothetical "you" (like me not you, yourself of course... What am I talking about???

Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 26/03/2004 14:07

but all fine (?)...it makes me wonder tho, given how extraordinarily good nature seems to be at providing everything else, why vit k would be missed out...is there vit k in breastmilk?

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Jimjams · 26/03/2004 14:15

splutter- suedonim- that's hilarious. It has to be made up. Isn't the concensus something like Leo had them but late.......

dinny · 26/03/2004 14:15

Isn't there some school of thought that says Vik K jab contributes to jaundice? Dunno where I heard it.

Dinosaur, it gets harder, doesn't it? I got that Neudstaedter book on Jimjam's recommendation - very good.

Jimjams, do the health pros "have" to let you change the dtp schedule? Suppose they do...

Chandra · 26/03/2004 14:25

Yes, but I couldn't breastfeed (an don't get into that because it still hurts), so I'm not the one to say "and nothing happen...". No vit K in breastmilk though... that's why it's given. It prevents brain hemorrages or something in the like.

suedonim · 26/03/2004 14:25

Thought you might enjoy that, Jimjams!

Re VitK, we refused it for dd2. The controversy about a link with leukaemia arose after dd1 had been given it without our permission. I believe the link was not proven in further research. We came to our decision for dd2 after asking midwives of their experiences(this was pre-internet days) and came to the conclusion that we didn't want dd2 to have it. Got a loooooooong lecture from a paed, though.

Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 26/03/2004 14:26

no one can do anything to your child without your express permission and you have every right to delay/not have/reshedule vacs. its like when i found out that if anyone did anything to me in hospital without permission it was actual bodily harm (unless you are unconscious and no relatives around) but no one realises this and the way that health professionals phrase 'questions' makes them sound like you have no choice at all especially when it comes to giving birth...makes me so angry

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Jimjams · 26/03/2004 14:31

yeah as sophable says you choose dinny. I doubt you'll have problems posponing. If you're worried about getting a lecture just say they're poorly/recovering froma virus.

I know next to nothing about vit K. Must read up on it. Both mine have had it but both were section babies, so that may have tipped the balance in favour of them having it. If I had another god knows what I would do about k.

Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 26/03/2004 14:38

jimjams, given your feelings about vacs and wakefield witchhunt (i looked at that thread) how do you feel about the mumsnet piece on vaccinations...i'm disappointed at how onesided it is...but maybe they can't risk putting the otherside across cause of sponsors or something..

OP posts:
Jimjams · 26/03/2004 15:05

Oh I haven't looked at that for a while. it's written by a GP isn't it? So I guess they'll always give the official view.

I'm in the process of (very slowly) setting up a website. There'll be a section on vax. That will give advice on things likes getting thimerosil free vax, and decision making (ie working out the risks) and alternatives (having some not others, having homeopathic nosodes etc). I'd better read up on vitamin K

Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 26/03/2004 15:37

god i admire you, i have ideas for business/website stuff all the time, but to actually act on it...i salute you

OP posts:
CountessDracula · 26/03/2004 15:56

Chandra Crohn's is an autoimmune disease causing ulceration of the gastro-intestinal tract. It's the disease that MMR is accused by some of causing, along with autism.

Jimjams · 26/03/2004 16:11

I've only bought the domain name so far sophable.. .......

juniper68 · 26/03/2004 19:17

There's supposed to be a link with bowel problems and autism so that's interesting (can't remember where I heard it tho?)

What about the poor mums who had to legally have there children vaccinated because their ex's wanted it doing

Jimjams · 26/03/2004 20:53

that's wakefield's work juniper. A lot of autistic children have bowel problems of some sort. The children he saw had something he described a autistic enterocolitis- basically ulcerated bowels of a novel type.

A lot of autistic children have "leaky gut" as well- their membranes are more permeable and larger molecules than usual will enter the blood stream. My son has this and is gluten free because of it. This hasn't been linked with vaccination though AFAIK.

Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 26/03/2004 21:18

jimjams are you there? you seem to know so much about this...how come?

OP posts:
stace · 26/03/2004 22:06

Interesting thread, my ds is now 4 and was not given Vit k at about 1 week old, to TBH i had know idea what it was for and did not have the head to find out at the time. I knew i had huge concerns about vacs though. When it came to vac time i just refused and by the sounds of it was quite lucky not to have recieved any overt pressure from the medical establishment. I do remember once being at my gp's when he had some visiting doctors from India and he asked me why i had chosen not to vaccinate. When i gave him my answers he turned to his two colleagues (approx 50-60yrs old doctors) and asked them to comment ...... one said nothing and the other actually owned up to the fact that he would not give his children MMR!!! Anyway age 18mnths + had my DS separately vaccinated for polio due to travels to other countries and then had sep measles and mumps at age 2 and 2.5. Unfortunately in the clinic in hertfordshire that has been discredited therefore have absolutely no idea what his immunity is. Have fretted and worried and considered having him tested for immunity and come to the conclusion that for me i will wait until he is 5 and readdress the situation then. Dont know if this is of any help at all but hope it helps someone out there at least not be scared of establishment and go with your own judgement whatever that may be!!!!!

bobthebaby · 27/03/2004 02:01

MMR is done at 15 months in New Zealand and having thought "that's ages away" I realised today it's only 2 months now. I am considering keeping to the schedule for the other stuff (DTaP, HiB)and just not bothering with the MMR. I am getting the opposite pressure - people think he shouldn't be vaccinated! Is it possible to vaccinate say at 4, and is there any benefit to this?

Jimjams · 27/03/2004 09:27

Hi sophable- because I have a vaccine damaged child Not entirely. But lets say that I believe thimerosil was the first push on the road to autism. May have been enough in itself, but he regressed further after a natural herpes infection (eczema herpeticum at 11 months). Not sure which did the most damage. That's why I'm so interested in Walsh's work on metallothionein- it gves a mechanism by which my son was damaged. Didn't want the same thing to happen to ds2 so I read up a lot.

stace- don't know whether this will be reassuring, or not but anthroposophical (which I can never spell- but Steiner movement) doctors are a strange blend of orthodox and alternative medicine. They recommend vaccinating for measles if a child hasn't had measles before the age of 9- because its more serious in older children. I guess I'm saying you've got time to work out how to test immunity if you want to.

Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 27/03/2004 10:43

jimjams, i understand now...it must be v v hard, and hard not to be so angry that it consumes all of your energy...are you doing the diet thing that they showed in the doc on channel 5 (no wheat, no dairy) and has it helped any?...autistic spectrum is so wide i hope that your ds is on the lesser end...

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Jimjams · 27/03/2004 11:25

unfortunately not the lesser end. He's doing well but severely hampered by lack of language (nouns and set phrases and not much else) and completely incomprehemsible speech (eg I want toilet is "dai dai mmdan".) We're half doing the diet. Gluten free, MSG free, aspartame free, gelatine and yeast extract free. We've tried him milk free twice but no change. Gluten free makes a HUGE difference. As does peanuts strangely enough (on them he's a headbanging maniac). He's affectionate and friendly though so that makes life easier.

We've just started ABA which is a teachign techniques- currently he's doing 3 hours on a Sautrday (and an hour of speech therapy). He has his session now- and I can heard him laughing away. He loves it! We hope doing this will lead to receptive langauge at least eventually.

I get cross when I see things like the Wakefield smear campaign, or the hear the crap that leaves Elizabeth Millar's mouth, but most of the time we're too busy. I don't get too angry on our behalf, after all the damage is done and he's the way he is- we just have to do the best we can for him, but it makes me feel ill to think of other people going through this unnecessarily. Autism is many things- but its not fun! I don't think make people realise the true horror of it really until they see it up close.

Jimjams · 27/03/2004 11:27

piccie of him here scroll down and you get the whole family

Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 27/03/2004 11:32

he is BEAUTIFUL (am not just saying this)...cannot imagine how difficult it must be, but he is lucky to have a mum who is working so hard at keeping informed and doing all the best things by him...you're a hero

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hercules · 27/03/2004 11:37

Wow, JimJams what a beautiful family.
I had a friend when ds was a baby who'se son was a year older than mine. She was an excellent mum with a useless dp. She went through hell with her ds and he was eventually diagnosed at 4 with autism and adhd but she had to fight very very very hard to get this. In the meantime she had to contend with other parents constantly giving advice and cooments on her so called lack of parenting skills. She felt it was her doing something wrong. He was violent towards other children and her. He could label things but his speech will never develop beyond that. Her gp thought he was naughty and was unhelpful./ It took visits by her hv to his playgroup to watch him, countless gp appointments, it was only when seeing a new gp and her ds trashed the surgery room did she get refered when he was 3/4.
People stopped visiting her and she lost lots of friends as he was so violent towards other children.
She used to give him phenargen to sleep just so she had a break. As it happens when he was diagnosed he was prescribed sleeping tablets so she could get some sleep as he only needed about 5 hours a night, not enough for her.
He was lucky to get a place at a nursery that had places for autistic children but the last i heard from her she was told there were no primary places for him.

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