Back to Back Trouble. The Back Pain Support Thread.

[Matildathecat]

This is a support thread for people with back pain (that does not even cover the description of hell that back pain causes). It's for all types of back pain, for long term posters with chronic pain (including those on the upwards journey to recover), short term advice through tough acute episodes and all the in betweens.

We moan, winge, share successes, guide each other and hand hold through the maize of a million medical routes and options, treatments, investigations. We internet shop as a form of pain relief, drink wine, take strong painkillers, eat cake and we go through lots of heat packs!

We don't always have the answers but we do have a lot to say about it all

Here are the links to our previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread?msgid=47419209#47419209

And some other useful links and info:

www.patient.co.uk/health/cauda-equina-syndrome-leaflet

We have done the hard work for you and learned about effective drug combining. Using NSAIDs, a stomach protector, paracetamol with or without codeine (it enhances the codeine), nerve pain meds such as gabapentin and/or amytriptiline can all be more effective than simply taking huge doses of opiates. Of course most people won't need all of this but for severe prolonged back injuries this is helpful to know.

Heat, gentle exercise, TENs, medication patches, diazepam and accupuncture, we've tried them all.

So if you are suffering come and join us, were a social lot.

matilda be as nosy as you like I don't mind. Yes I have a big house and a big family. 5 children including a set of triplets. My youngest is 11 and eldest is 21. I guess I have spoilt them too much. They help if I ask but I prefer to do it myself. That way it gets done. I try to do as much housework as I can and then I suffer for a few hours. But we get by. The children can cook and look after themselves if needed and I do get the odd cup of tea brought to me if I am in bed in pain. So that's a nice treat.

It's my birthday soon. So I went into my favourite jewellers today and treated myself to a really pretty necklace. Then as I was walking out I saw a range if jewellery that I have never liked. But I had never seen up close. So had a good look and tried one on and loved it. Oops. Had to put a deposit on one. Well it is nearly my birthday and I have been through a lot. And it does help the pain if I am happy inside. So that's ok. Isn't it? Lol

Yep, that's very much ok.

Hope you have a lot of he with all the domestic stuff. I have quite a big house, too and rely on help. I'm an old hand now and am fine with asking. I had a man some to quite for some decorating recently. My first question was, 'could you please bring I. My shopping from the boot of my car?'

Kids can do so much more than we think. But they do need to be asked and reminded.xx

Thank you for the replies, yes. I will read back in more detail.

DD is 12 and has Down Syndrome, I also have a rather lazylaid back 14 yr old DS. LOL

I have a "day off" tomorrow so plan to get some of my tests done before my afternoon commitment at DD's school.

I loved my heated wheat bag in the colder months but now the weather has changed I have tried not using it.

Shattered now, must go to bed. Sleep tight everyone and thank you once again!

I don't like to ask though. I would rather struggle myself

I don't know what age you have to get to where you notice dirty plates on the side of the kitchen and think. I must put those in the dishwasher. Or maybe, dirty clothes on the floor. Oh I must wash those or put them in the washing basket ready to be washed. When will that happen to my children?? They will sit with mess all around them and not even bother with it. As long as the room I am in and as far as I can see is tidy then I am happy. With if I know there is a big mess elsewhere. Then I have to tidy it. And why do friends/ relatives: guests come round when the house is a tip and not when I have spent hours and a lot of pain tidying up!?!?

I don't like to ask, either. But here's a question: what if each person brought down their own plate, their dirty washing and maybe washed up once a week? Not much skin off their noses, a lot less pain for you.

Really. Get tough. You aren't helping your kids, you might be starting a life of entitlement. Before you get angry with me, I was discussing this today with a friend and wondering just how our kids were so fucking entitled when we had to work for each and every thing we got.

Tell them what you need then stick to it. You can always close the doors of rooms you don't like looking at. I've done it.xx

It's such a simple thing to do but they won't. Not until there room is full and I moan at them. One isn't working. Two at college. One working part time but they have busy social lives. Need feeding once a day and clean clothes and they are happy. They do do bits sometimes. When they know I am bad they do look after me. One has just come into my room and asked if I want a cup of tea. They are good kids. No trouble. Don't smoke. Don't do drugs. Don't get into trouble. They are happy. I couldn't ask for more. So I shouldn't moan really. Just sometimes gets me down. I miss seeing their carpets!!

We have a small house, well a two bed ground floor flat. We almost moved out of London to a detached four bed but it fell through and DH got a job back in London. And now DD1 has a place in one of the best state schools in England, well they like to think but it depends on which league table you look at. The big upside of not having a big house is the cleaning and no stairs to lug everything up and down. I also get to lie in bed and the kids are still nearby if they need me. And we have extra money (due to a low mortgage) for physios and massages, even here we'd need half a million for a decent house :(

As for the age you notice mess etc, well DH is 34 and still doesn't put things back where he found them and cupboard doors are left open. But even I wasn't great until we got our own place, especially when it comes to inviting people round and wanting it to be tidy. And I had parents who weren't necessarily around or wouldn't cook for us (I have a sister), we had to fend for ourselves a lot of the time. We also both left to live away for uni at 18/19 which is great for learning to look after yourself. But I always viewed the bedroom as my space and I didn't bother with really keeping on top of it until we moved here and had kids. I think I'd let them keep it messy as long as I didn't need to go inside so they would bring down laundry or plates and glasses etc.

I already get the kids to tidy up and help pick things off the floor to save my back. I can see that without a bad back it would be easier to just do everything myself, and that includes DH as I hate nagging and hearing him huffing and puffing while doing stuff. He is much better now and because of my back he does vacuuming, sweeping and mopping, dishwasher, changes our bed and gets the kids dressed in the morning. He also puts the kids in the car seats and picks them up and chases after them at weekends - people probably think I'm just really lazy when I get in the car and leave it all to him. I do general tidying, surface cleaning and laundry. The deeper clean stuff like skirting boards and under furniture is totally neglected :( I did push myself more when told there was nothing wrong with me but now I'm too scared to do it as it risks causing horrendous spasms or even making the disc bigger = CES. I have housework phobia!

Hello,

please can I join in and ask for help? I wandered in and mostly lurked for little while last year... But then the pain eased so I didn't bother so much.

So... Last year around November I was experiencing sciatica... Went to the doc and they gave me a ct scan which found osteo arthritis, narrowing of disc with discogenic vertebral sclerosis, disc protrusion and osteophytes and a heap of other long words.....

I have been referred to a Neuro surgeon but will wait forever for that.

With time it eased, and a bit of physio helped.

However last week I woke up and couldn't move.... Similar pain going in though more in the lower back. Went back to the doc and she has prescribed lyrica (pregalbin) but won't scan me again due to concerns about radiation.

So....

Any advice?
Am managing to work (ish) but concerned about driving, both because of the meds and the sitting?
Ill take any advice on benefits of massage? Physio? Chiro? Diet? Drug combinations?

Thanks in advanc

Morning.all.and.hiya.to.newbies. _Laptop.weirdness.continues.Think.I.need.to.take.it.in.to.apple.to.get.looked.over.oh.no!time.without.it.will.be.strange.but.have.had.it.for.about.3.yrs.
might.have.sot.something.on.the.keyboard.
Did.my.hour.of.physio.yesterday.but.didnt.fit.in.the.balancing.exercise.or....Stretches.and.that.is.with.all.family.away.and.nothinng.thatHAS.to.be.done.so.shows.hao.difficult.it.is.to.do.it.all. Feel good today though so it's worth the effort.
Others on here will be much more expert than I millytint but your sciatica and what thy found in your scan can involve nerves and many on here have found either gabapentin or pregablin very effective.
I only know gabapentin but the two have similar structure, pregablin seems to be associated with a lower incidence of side effects. You are right about the driving, you would need to start and see how it affected you. But with very gradual increasing of the drug (you start with minimum dose and go up slowly-called titration,down too if needed) you can minimise the side effects in most people. some find the side effects hang around and either adapt daily life to fit or come off the drug and look for alternatives

as you may see I have found a way to space bar by typing = and then backspace as this leaves a gap.But it takes a long time =to type! and feels very disjointed
Beautiful sunny and very hot sunshine here, =gorgeous
Going to meet dh and kids from the train later,been missing them loads!
Hope you all have a dercreased pain day today. Particularly since some have been dealing with more than usual.
I am in awe of you having triplets,msdj-wow!my sister has twins and that was very hard.Are they identical, boy,andgirl?etc? of course I find twins fascinating!
Last two essays I put in came back with 80% so I am well chuffed with that, find out if deff onto next year i =july, there was only one other piece of work left to find mark out for.
In a slight quandary over what to do about being signed off work. The doctor has hinted he doesnt want to keep signing me off indefinitely, and I soetimes have less pain so could maybe start to do something in theory but in reality I'll prob never g =into a kitchen again because ther's always something heavy to lift,etc.But maybe I have to try a few hours to see what happens .plus I am a bit wobbly on the gaba still-only notice if I try to do stuff.I am getting some advice fron "rightfully yours" that deal with allbenefit rights,etc.Also =anyone on here getting tax credits, do you need to include ssp in your end/year household income? bet you know this pav

queen =we =are in a small house and you really struggle to stay tidy as ther's nstorage space.trying to re-organise this summer with extra shelving etc because now i'm based at uni it makes sense to stay put a bit longer-and becuase we've also just got ds(with asd) into our first preference for school I wouldnt want to move him out for at least 1/2yrs as it takes a while for them to build a strong rapport,as his nursery have done, and alot of progress has followed.
I was given the option to go get my MRI results today but it clashed with helping dh and the kids get home so will have to go back to plan A and wait until 20th,harrumph

Hello Millie,

Our previous thread which you can access from our header has tons of advice about drug combining. It's a difficult balance but miles more effective than just taking huge doses of one drug.

Here's my lot:

Gabapentin 600 x3daily
Naproxen 500x 2
Tramadol slow release 150x1
Cocodamol 30x2 as and when
Amytriptiline 20mg once at night.
Lactulose at night
diazepam as and when, for spasm.

It's a lot of drugs but keeps me relatively stable. That is, of course if you limit activity ( for me this includes not sitting wherever possible and lying down a lot), gentle and specific exercise and heat. Lots of heat.

Physio can be good if very gentle Pilates type. I have a great one who does release massage then Pilates with me. I swim and do hydro in a modified way. And I have a huge amount of help. I ask for help a lot and rarely get refused. That's at home and out. Ie get the shopping carried to your car. I have ablue badge which is very useful. And a stick because I wobble.

That's taken more than two years to work out! You are likely to need far less but if you have a proven prolapse which you do, follow the above and be very patient because given time and rest it can heal.

Keep posting. Hope that helps.

Molly - as above and re the referral - has this been made, if do you can go back to the GP and ask to access choose and book (google it for the full explanation on the NHS website). If you get access or your GP does, you can select a neurosurgeon with shorter wait times, even if there is a bit more travel. You can have an MRI if radiation is a problem, unless you have metal implants of some sort - it's just a big magnet and very safe. The surgeon may want new images anyway. 18 weeks is the target wait time. I waited 9 weeks, well still waiting, for my urgent referral to a very busy London hospital - I didn't ask about choose and book as I never thought it would take that long, neither did the GP.

queen how do you know whT neuro has shorter waiting times in other areas? Is there a list somewhere? I am being so slack with searching and researching surgeons, I have absolutely no time. The only way I can take care of my health in terms of booking appts, researching, speaking to secretaries, cLling choose and book is if I am not working, I am out of the house 8:30/9am-6pm twice/three times a week, and the other days have so much to do with children etc they by the time I get a moment without a child asking for something or other, there is no time to call and by the time I have them in bed I am so shattered I can't focus, and the more pain I am in, and the more I need this done the more tired and in,pain I am in and exhausted so can't do it!

maizie yes you have to include ssp. As it's an 'income', an alternative to a wage. I don't need to declare it as I get full company sick pay so I just get my salary as usual, so I declare my full salary for child tax credits as if I was not off work. If did not get paid other than ssp when I was off sick and got ssp instead, I would declare my yearly income minus my sick days, and then instead add ssp for those days. You don't get ssp for the first three days of ssp. The only 'benefit' that you don't declare is DLA/PIP, or rather, declare it, but it doesn't count as income. In fact, it may increase other benefits such as enhanced disability allowance payments, and a working disability payment if wokig over a certain number of hours/possible increased help with child are costs. Any tax credit entitlements are automatically calculated by the tax credit people. (Carers allowance is counted as income). Ask if you need more info!

Pavlov - ask your GP to use the choose and book or provide you with log in details, he may need to investigate this as not all GPs seem up to date with this. By the sounds of it, from what the GP told me, you can see the different options and there will be a waiting time for each and you can use it to book the actual date and time if I understand it right. Basically ask your GP to do it and tell you which hospitals have the shortest wait times then research them and book the preferred one. Feeling any better? Have you got a support belt? I find this helps me walk a bit better as it holds me together while the muscles are weaker or in spasm. I have found diazepam helpful recently, it made the walk to pick up my eldest much easier than the drop off walk before taking it.

I'm feeling a bit like my back may go again if I'm not careful, it's warning me with pain and tightness just above the pelvis.

pavlov quick question about Attendance Allowance..I claimed it for mil who now lives in a nursing home but is self funding and still gets her AA. FIL still lives in the family home but very frail ( in hospital right now but hoping to get home after some respite care). Can he also claim AA or can only one partner get it? I'm confused! He never got Carers Allowance due to savings.

Elderly parents a re such a headache. At the moment it seems relentless but at least there are lots of us to share it out.

Thank you so much for replying....unfortunately the surgeon wait is v long and not a great deal I can do about it.. Should have said in my first post that I live in central Queensland. Unfortunately this means I will need to travel by plane to see the surgeon and there aren't many so the lists are long.

Thanks for the info re drug combining.

I have started to ask for help. We have a cleaner once a week and I am working from home when I can.... My role is quite hands on though and involves 3 hours of driving if I am not at home. Hmmm, my boss is beautiful and sympathetic but she may not be if I am unable to deliver...

On a side note... (Outs self completely) my job is also very emotionally demanding...and exercise was my release. Since I have stopped training I have had panic attacks, nausea and depression, have seen a psychologist through work and a gp has prescribed pristiq ... I was hoping to kick its ass and then my back went again... Feels like things ate stacking up!

Sorry to be posting all about me...... Poor form indeed...Hope everyone else has had a good day

milly, as a former fitness addict I share your pain. Ima swimmer and have found a way of doing this In a way that protects my back and leg. I do front crawl with a shaped float squeezed between my legs. The squeezing gives the thighs and core and pelvic floor a bit of work. I then try to do lengths without breathing which gets my heart rate up. It's better than nothing. Some Pilates is quite hard work, too.

Can you reduce the driving? Sounds very bad for the back pain. Sorry you are having such a hard time. Just be hyper aware of the signs of CES if you are so far from the neurosurgeons. Link in the header above.x

And would love to hear about life in Queensland. Sounds very different from London.

Thanks for highlighting CES... Have just done a quick google... Hadn't even heard of it (ignorant),

Life in Queensland is indeed very different to London! Lovely and awful in equal measure! We are blessed with blue skies at the moment

queen I tend to find when I feel my back is going to go, it goes very soon, so do take note of knowing your body, but, from my own experience, there seems to be very little I can do to stop it 'going'. It can be as simple as bending to spit when cleaning my teeth (the other day) or getting off the sofa

My GP has not spoken to me at all about this choose and book system in the way you describe, if he had, I would have been on it by now booking the best surgeon in the land! I am going to get onto him about it on Monday, can't do it before as I got work followed by camping immediately, but I love the idea of being able to check out the waiting times and see what my options are, this was not offered to me last year. I was given local hospital, no choice offered.

Talking of camping - we have been preparing for this all evening, and my leg is proper fucked now! I am hoping it will sort itself out by tomorrow, but. Hmm, I had an 'ok' day after a lovely wonderful day in Salcombe, just chilling with DH on his birthday, took much walking but my back was actually a little better for it I think, leg not so good but back was a bit straighter today. However, a friend has lent me this massage cushion, lovely, but it has bruised me! (not sure if literally to see, but wow sore to touch like I have been punched in the back all over!). But this weekend is our 'shakedown' trip as DH keeps referring to it, and we have had to organise everything as first time we have gone without friends to back us up with provisions since my back went. Brave/foolish, not sure which, but weather set to be marvellous, so looking forward to going away with the children. I think we have sussed some of DS's temper/behaviour issues - he is bored. Not that we don't do anything with him, but he requires constant stimulation, as, we have noticed when he is doing something (like helping us pack for our trip by giving him a box and letting him fill it with things, and 'organise') he is so well behaved, when we give him tasks to do (except anything related to tidying ) that he needs to focus on, he is great, so this trip should be just what he needs.

Sorry, can't remember who asked how I am, several I think. I have been better today, but, largely, i don't feel in great shape physically, my leg is bothering me but I know no-one is going to do anything about that medically with any urgency so I am not making any more of a fuss, got pain clinic next week with consultant not the other guy, not sure about injections now, but will push for them and get my own way before I change my mind , i have numb toes, the very tips though oddly. Right now, I have numbness in my groin/inner thigh on the right, not painful, just loss of sensation (not internal, more skin and little deeper), but think I have just overdone it and am going to sleep so should be fine by the morning.

milly welcome btw, you have been looked after I am glad to see! I will post more after the weekend when I will no doubt be in need of some virtual tlc after my camping trip

matilda it is my understanding that the AA is individually based, so if he should be able to claim it in his own right. Unlike other benefits, including ESA at the 'working group' level or whatever it's called, DLA/PIP/Attendance allowance is not a joint assessment, is not means tested and it is purely based on individual needs. I don't even think there are any questions that look at the income or benefit entitlement of partners in the form as it's irrelevant.

He won't be able to claim it if he is in hospital, so he can claim when he comes home, or start the ball rolling with the anticipation of coming home if there is an idea of when that might be, if he goes into hospital again, they will stop/suspend payments while he is in there. I don't know what the minimum time in hospital is, something like two weeks or more? You will need to look into it, so, if you have, like me, surgery in and out in a couple of days, it's not effected, it's long term hospital or other care outside of the home that affects it and so there's an official minimum term that applies.

Oh, and it is also worth noting, for those caring for your dad, that, if there is a main carer, they can claim carers allowance if they do a large chunk of the care (over 35 hours officially), even if they live out of the family home, you don't have to be the partner of the person claiming AA/DLA/PIP and you don't have to live at home, but you do have to be someone linked personally (i.e., not a paid carer) and meet the other usual requirements of eligibility in terms of income etc. So if it is shared out but someone gets the lion's share of care, might be worth looking at if there are costs involved (usually are, shopping, cleaning, fuel to drive them places etc, picking up bits and bobs they need but can't get and you don't want to ask for payment for etc).

And, I believe you can claim carers allowance if you yourself are claiming DLA/PIP/AA and meet the other eligibility requirements.

Hi Pavlov ...hope the camping goes well, we were supposed to go last weekend but I wasn't ale to sit in the car for the distance. So please enjoy it for me too! Agree wit you re, ds, my too love the responsibility of helping when we are camping, even doing the dishes is that little bit different and exciting. My two always sleep like angels as well because of the fresh air. Happy days. :)