Back to Back Trouble. The Back Pain Support Thread.

[Matildathecat]

This is a support thread for people with back pain (that does not even cover the description of hell that back pain causes). It's for all types of back pain, for long term posters with chronic pain (including those on the upwards journey to recover), short term advice through tough acute episodes and all the in betweens.

We moan, winge, share successes, guide each other and hand hold through the maize of a million medical routes and options, treatments, investigations. We internet shop as a form of pain relief, drink wine, take strong painkillers, eat cake and we go through lots of heat packs!

We don't always have the answers but we do have a lot to say about it all

Here are the links to our previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread?msgid=47419209#47419209

And some other useful links and info:

www.patient.co.uk/health/cauda-equina-syndrome-leaflet

We have done the hard work for you and learned about effective drug combining. Using NSAIDs, a stomach protector, paracetamol with or without codeine (it enhances the codeine), nerve pain meds such as gabapentin and/or amytriptiline can all be more effective than simply taking huge doses of opiates. Of course most people won't need all of this but for severe prolonged back injuries this is helpful to know.

Heat, gentle exercise, TENs, medication patches, diazepam and accupuncture, we've tried them all.

So if you are suffering come and join us, were a social lot.

I just feel 'arrrrgh!!!' fgs, he has said NOTHING in this letter! 'it is likely, but far from guaranteed that some the symptoms may be...' It's not English! It's utter nonsense! maybe, possibly, likely, not guaranteed, possibly, might not be, could be, not sure.

And. Add this to the fact that I am still not 100% convinced that, despite there being issues with discs and vertebrae, there is not something inflammatory going on (given that my pain is hugely hugely managed with high doses of naproxen), I wonder if he actually has not got a fucking clue.

Two things spring to mind:
He knows exactly what the fuck is going on. Doesn't want me to know.
He has no fucking clue what is going on. Doesn't want me to know.

tough sorry you are getting so much of the same shit. It's just bananas.

kaylasmum just quickly before I head out - re your chair. They cannot, at your place of work, do a generic check of chairs and declare them safe for you with your specific issues. They must do a proper formal workstation assessment, either in-house or externally using a private OH company, to assess it using specific H&S criteria. it must be specific to you, noted and you given a copy of their decision and how they came to it.

Even for smaller companies, there is a huge amount of financial support to manage workplace disabilities and health issues. There is an access to work funding from the government, that pays for adjustments in the workplace on health grounds, so that small companies are not financially penalised by having to take sometimes huge financial costs to adjust, or risk breaching Equalities Act. There are organisations like PLUSS (not sure if that's a SW org), which applies for and accesses the support, be it a chair, the costs of transport, an additional person, the funds for workplace assistance in physical form, new doors, lifts put in, all sorts of things that the government will help with. If it's a large org, they will already know this.

Make it clear, that if they do not support you, and your condition is, or becomes covered by the Equalities Act (needs to be a health problem for 3 months or likely to be so for the next 12 months or more to be counted as a disability for Equalities Act) then they are liable to tribunal processes if you end up being unable to work due to their lack of adjustments. I have not read it all, adjust skimming so might have the wrong end of the stick, if so I apologise. I will read more detail this evening.

Pavlov - I'm sure it's really because you are a mere non medically trained pea brain who cannot possible comprehend technical information about your own body. Annoys the hell out of me! Roll on October and I hope that consultant is more able to share the level of detail you need to make your decision.

I was up a fair bit yesterday, round the house, sitting and standing, I felt quite good. By the evening I was sore like before, pain the hip area and thigh on the right. Feeling rubbish and sore today and hoping it just takes time and it's not failed - I'm so sure the pain in the hip area is nerve pain. I find sitting painful, especially the loo (due to the hole) where the pain goes into the pelvis either side due to the pressure. I feel a bit lost and there is no one to tell me it's ok, no one who is an expert anyway. Also annoyed as I'm running out of codeine and need to call GP for more. I'm very low but reminding myself it's not quite a week ago and it was a big surgery.

queen did you get a raised toilet seat? If not, call the ward and ask them for one, or call physio team at the hospital and tell them you need one. I found this hugely helpful when going to to the loo as barely had to bend.

"Most practitioners will agree that, while the effects of the injection tend to be temporary - providing relief from pain for one week up to one year - an epidural can be very beneficial for a patient during an acute episode of back and/or leg pain" I read this earlier, while researching the epidural steroid injection, as I am having it on friday for my sciatic pain.

So, a couple of questions. Why, if it is effective for acute pain, for both back and leg pain, is it not offered so quickly, but as part of the ongoing pain clinic management, which is for chronic pain? And why is it only offered for leg pain not back pain?

Evening ladies.

queen, it's early days! keep the faith and keep resting and pottering. I think now is a hard time because you've had the op, done all you were told and still feeling bad. But it's only a week.xx

spare, I will fess up to being a midwife in my pre back days. For quite a long time, actually. So what your surgeon has said is that from a spinal point of view there is no additional risk for a natural birth. This is great news.

When you eventually get to the stage of needing to discuss this with your obstetrician s/he might well write to your surgeon to clarify this. Pregnancy can and does relax the ligaments and as you will know can cause problems with pregnancy often in the form of SPD. This can occasionally be severe but is mainly a nuisance. The issues that are complete no nos with natural birth are pelvic abnormalities such as crush injuries and so on. As maizie says cs is a major surgery and can have consequences in many ways.

For a first baby almost every obs would prefer to wait and see because having a cs will impact on all future deliveries and does carry risks. Often these can't be weighed up until the end of the pregnancy.

If at all possible in your situation I'd be hoping for a natural birth as upright and active as possible to reduce additional pressure on your back. If it turns out a cs is needed well at least you know it was definitely needed. I'm not suggesting pain and toil are good but heading straight for a cs with your first might not be the best thing.

I had a lot of significant joint and pelvic problems and surgeries before my babies were born and was very sceptical about my chances of natural births. They both came along just fine. Well, not that marvellous but no medical problems!

Good luck with your IVF, I wish you every success and if nothing else, keep an open mind.x

pavlov and tough, thinking of you both. Hoping for better things for you.

Sorry for the essay. Nighty night.

Matilda
Thank you so much for your kind words, and useful advice.
I think this issue can get filed for a few more months, and I can stop stressing!

spare, yes, definitely no stressing. It's a very emotive subject but generally 'wait and see' is the way to go.

Good luck.

Randomly in a lot of extra pain.
Tens machine on while I bf. could hardly walk, going to take the liquid morphine if it carries on

Pavlov - I asked the physio about the loo seat and she said it's normally given to hip replacement patients but I can ask if needed. I'm not sure it would solve the pain, although getting up after is a bit tough. A soft seat may be helpful but it's just the pressure. Even lying down on my side puts pressure on the pelvis in two very specific spots, much more specific than pre surgery.

I feel pretty good except for the sitting. After overdoing it I felt a lot better after a day mostly in bed. My bed is my home! I potter about lying down is a must most of the time. Keeping up the physio and I've asked for another referral (by phone and being a locus she was very nice). Got more codeine but trying not to take it all the time. Paracetamol is quite effective for the pain now. Patch change day today! Once the pain levels come down I must discuss withdrawal and managing remaining pain. GP said physio is key so I hope it is, I'm joining the gym when I get the go ahead. Off for a walk to the shops for the first outing - my bedroom opens into the garden so I haven't felt too cabin feverish.

Hope everyone is feeling better soon - don't suffer cold, get the morphine!

hiya all,
spare ask them to book you someone to go through your options nearer the time- i had a lady quite specialised talk me through my vbac but sure thy would be happy to offer to anyone having worries. All I can say is that I enjoyed my vbac far more than my cs, being able to hold her as soon as she came into the world and give her a hug was priceless to me and i couldnt domit with him as I was not able to move much still.
hope you are healing well chrysallis- don't stint yourself on the codeine too much, take it regularly is better as it builds up in your system, to avoid the peaks and troughs. i seem to remmber you cannot have nsaids?

sorry to hear you are in alot more pain cottage - must be pain thursday, I am also randomly in alot more pain, top of hips/deep buttocks feel bruised ad sore, esp when upright. think my period might be one possible cause as i often get moe pain around that time. hope you are feeling a bit better or have taken the morphine to help- I have had 30mg codeine twicw today and it's wearing off now but I dont usually take the evening dose of pregab until 8 so i'm in bed with my hottie and contemplating a hot bath. feel a bit generally wrecked today- went to feed my friends' cats yesterday and walked alot more than usual, had taken codeine which might have masked that and then the evening pregab but maybe paying for it today ??
that pain you are having sitting on the loo- I got just the same when i was pg heavily and had spd, almost like itchy pain, very horrid to have such in lady parts so you have my sympathy. Are you doing any pelvic floor exercises? it might help a bit?

Sorry to those in pain. Hope the colder weather goes away and we can warm our achey bones in the sun.

I've had a great day on the beach with my parents, aunt and dog. The dog lurves the beach. He runs and runs, wants his ball thrown into the estuary a million times to swim and fetch it and then digs a huge hole. All very entertaining. The sun was shining so ok with a jumper on. I took my usual meds plus a slow release tramadol and was pretty good. Had a long lie and more meds on return.

If I feel crap tomorrow, so be it.

that sounds lovely matilda, very psychologically nourishing :)

Bumping for QOD

I'm back! Nerve block went well, I was told horror stories about pain and nerve making you jump and all but the anaesthetics said he was doing a light general which was the same as heavy sedation !? Anyways, I went out like a light

Seems to have worked, no nerve pain and I haven't taken amytritiline for about 4 days either ... I still take co codamol but less frequently as I still get back "ache" - fingers crossed I'm good to go.

However, anyone I know who has had this done has told me they have to KEEEP getting it done which is a bummer, time will tell.

Currently the only pain in my ass is my husband who is being a fecking misery right now and well, if I could get him to have an injection to finish him off, life would be perfect

Good luck to everyone new and old, I will keep an eye and see how you all go and see if I have to become a permanent member or not!

oh, and i forgot to say I'm watching "orange is the new Black" and loving it! have got dh deep into it too
to any newbies sorry- we harp on about shopping, shows and more shopping in between the back stuff, go figure

I love this "Red" character, ans she is an actress from Star Trek!

pavlov- yes! i feel the same thing about there being an inflammatory response thing going on, diclofenac is effective, for a time,

QOD, great news your injectio worked. I think the anaesthetic was a good idea because I didn't want to say before but my last nerve blocks which were in three spots were total agony! And didn't work. But...I was told that if they find a spot that does work well they can do much longer acting injections and there is also radio wave ablation (?) which helps for ages. So potentially very good news for you.

maizie, I keep getting behind with Orange because DH hates it so it's my guilty secret. Pleasure and for some obscure reason I never seem to watch tv in the day. Maybe I'm afraid of slipping into a Jeremy Kyle lifestyle or addiction .

queen I found the toilet seat a huge huge help, weird that the physio said only for hip patients as I was given mine as standard. I found getting into the sitting position almost impossible for a while, and so it helped me immensely, I was actually a little afraid of going to the loo for that reason.

QOD glad the nerve block went well, what one did you have done? I am having the epidural today, not looking forward to it really. nerve pain is eased a little and I was tempted to cancel, but I know within the next week or so the pain will return with a vengeance and I have waited for months and months for this and if I don't have it done I will wait another age for it, so can't miss it. But, still, wish I didn't need it. And wish I was having a more direct one.

maizie I don't really understand it, but I do know that some days I feel physically unwell with this, not just back pain and nerve pain, but my whole being feels unwell. I also sometimes feel so down that I may never actually know what the fuck is going on. Or, that it will get worse and worse and worse for years before something more than back pain is diagnosed. I don't know for certain that is the case, but I really do suspect so, because when my flu feelings increase, so does my back pain and nerve pain, significantly, so it's got to be linked. My GP thinks it's just due to my body responding to the nerve pain, referred pain, but really I don't think it is. And have no idea of how to convince him otherwise. Don't know what to say.

I wonder how much is to do with the inflammation of the end plates as that can be a low grade infection - that would explain the constant pain, the constant feeling of being a bit unwell, the flue symptoms and the what appears to be speedy degeneration of the L5/S1 disc and area. And, like you, anti-inflammatories work to a large extent, but as we know, we cannot take those like sweets. I just want to be well again and stop having this hanging over me every fucking day. Sorry for the mini rant. Hope you are not feeling stupidly awful today.

On a good note. I had my hair cut and coloured yesterday. It looks fucking amazing! Except, he straightened it. And I won't be able to get it looking the same! I had my very original hairdresser, normally use his partner as he does colour and cut, but Simon only cuts, but John was not available as he is snowed under before holiday and I left it too late to book, so had a colleague do the colour, under the hawks eye of Simon, and he cut it. I remember why I had followed him from salon to salon until he opened his own salon (this one). His cut is amazing. He is so particular, and he loves clean cuts so enjoyed this. He still knows my hair, what I like form my cuts and remembered how long I had been married (he cut my hair for my wedding). I might go back to him properly. I might put up a photo for an hour or two if I can get it looking as good as he did it. My friend said 'wow!!! you look like a rock star or something!' as I turned up in my shades and new cut. And I had no make-up on and spots! Might do some make-uptoday, for my injection

Has anybody had any success with pregabalin or gabapentin without loads of side-effects?

L 4/5 nerve root block I believe if that's what you mean?