Back to Back Trouble. The Back Pain Support Thread.

[Matildathecat]

This is a support thread for people with back pain (that does not even cover the description of hell that back pain causes). It's for all types of back pain, for long term posters with chronic pain (including those on the upwards journey to recover), short term advice through tough acute episodes and all the in betweens.

We moan, winge, share successes, guide each other and hand hold through the maize of a million medical routes and options, treatments, investigations. We internet shop as a form of pain relief, drink wine, take strong painkillers, eat cake and we go through lots of heat packs!

We don't always have the answers but we do have a lot to say about it all

Here are the links to our previous threads:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1871592-The-Back-Story
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/1992406-The-Back-Story-Continues
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2023274-More-Terrible-Back-Stories
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_health/2049637-Back-Again-Back-Pain-Support-Thread?msgid=47419209#47419209

And some other useful links and info:

www.patient.co.uk/health/cauda-equina-syndrome-leaflet

We have done the hard work for you and learned about effective drug combining. Using NSAIDs, a stomach protector, paracetamol with or without codeine (it enhances the codeine), nerve pain meds such as gabapentin and/or amytriptiline can all be more effective than simply taking huge doses of opiates. Of course most people won't need all of this but for severe prolonged back injuries this is helpful to know.

Heat, gentle exercise, TENs, medication patches, diazepam and accupuncture, we've tried them all.

So if you are suffering come and join us, were a social lot.

maizie sounds lovely, having a few moments to yourself, they are rare these days, I hope you get more of them.

I made treasure boxes with the children, using shoe boxes, although spent too much in Hobby Craft to make them! One is gold with jewels all over it, with glittering white and black star felt lining (DDs), the other is 'wooden' covered in treasure, with black sparkly lining. They look pretty ace. But, I am pooped! We will collect treasure from our trips to beaches, woods, and other places (things like the stickers from NT properties will go in there) and it will either be our summer memory box or we will use the things to make a collage, maybe both. It sort of gives the holidays some structure, as we will take the boxes out with us each day even if it's a trip to the local park, something will go in, or they will draw something about the day when we get home.

for the love of cake pavlov PLEASE do not go into work tomorrow, what you describe sounds horrendous, and a bit concerning but I know nothing as I am not a doc. Think of it like this- if you go in and make it worse, you may have to be off a week, fortnight even. If you take preventative steps to rest now, maybe you can avert that. You never tell us you shouldnt work so it must be bad! The other thing I wondered is if you can plan out a meds schedule and take something before you start, tally it up with when you'll have a minute to do so- or take in a drink and pill box/ in your purse so you only need to stop for literally a minute to take them. It is not fair for you to have to go without while your pain gets alot worse- and staying ahead of the charging bull is easier than catching it.also have a snack in your bag if you need food with them- i got caught out not able to take a diclofenac until i had got home and could procure food, not pleasant.
Are you holding off the meds because you cannot think with them? I know it's a long time but if you took a week to get used to the nortryptiline you might end up in a much better position to do your job well and not so hindered by pain, they really do diminish alot after the beginning bit- in my experience, know its diff for everyone

The boxes sound a lovely idea for keepsakes from summer excursions. Iam mentally planning how to give thing 1 and thing 2 some structure in the next 6-8 weeks. want to spend as much time with them as poss. because never will get this chance to be so free to do so before their school, nursery and my uni committments all crowd in , in Autumn, end of an era!

maizie part of me not taking meds at work in the day is due to needing to think straight, certainly not taking codeine or additional tramadol until an hour or so before I leave, but I can take the naproxen and paracetamol during the day to ease the worst of it, and that's what I struggle with. And yes to food, I do need some snacks on my desk/in my bag to eat, I have started automatically getting myself some water each day, which I always forgot to do, so it was more obvious when I took my meds as I went to get the water first! If I have it all there, I can simply just pop some pills while typing/talking on the phone .

I do need to take the nortryptiline. I know that now. I can't do this any more without any nerve blocking pain meds. And fuck the pain clinic who think the nerve is not particularly being bothered right now other than 'general neuropathic pain seen in patients with chronic back pain' because my nerve receptors are misfiring. That's shit. How can they tell me that when I know that this is not a malfunction of my brain, or my mind. It's a malfunction of my fucking spine.

I have waited, goodness knows how long for my spinal injection since my May appt, told 6 weeks. It's all such bloody lies. The secretary told me on Tuesday I think it was that she had just written me a letter that morning and it would be with me by the end of the week. Well, if she had written it, then why the fuck was it not with me by Wednesday? Even second class posted two days later than she said would have got here by now. Why can't she just tell me the fucking truth for once. She keeps doing this - either she is incompetent and has not done the letter despite, as she says, having it dictated at the beginning of July, or she is covering for his sorry lying ass.

Sorry. I had a right old moan then! My muscles are locked solid, pretty permanently, and I can't get those way without diazepam. I am going to ask my GP for another referral to physio, see if they can help me unlock them.

I have probably asked this question before, so if I have, I apologise for not remembering the answer!

Has anyone tried aspirin instead of ibuprofen/naproxen etc for inflammation? Can it be taken with other meds such as tramadol (guessing so as it's an NSAID). Does it work? Is there a reason why it's not usually prescribed as an option?

Qod... A hot tub party sounds racy... I only get invited to parties that involve pass the parcel!

Pavlov can empathise with the work situation and needing a clear head, I am careful about what I take, but then I also worry about pain impairing my judgement as well.

I managed reasonably well at work today and was glad of the company. ... Still, on my back now and trying to avoid getting stabby at the family leaving crap all over the house.

Nope... Not tried aspirin

A hot tub sounds lovely! i think there is definitely scope for this on medicinal grounds. That's the justification I had for buying three pairs of Fly London Boots, although, they were significantly cheaper than a hot tub

I am going to talk to my GP shortly, and will ask him about aspirin. I am sure there was a good reason for not using it, but can't remember wh

oops, posted in error.

...can't remember what the reason for not using aspirin as the go to med, is what I mean to say.

I feel pretty ropey still. I have taken 100mg normal release tramadol as I want it to work more quickly than the slow release stuff. I have taken naproxen as usual but have run out of paracetamol. Does anyone get paracetamol on prescription? I have to pay for my prescriptions, but get a pre-payment card for £10 a month so it won't actually cost me any more to get the paracetamol. It's not about saving the money, it's more about the GP being able to prescribe me more than two tiny boxes of paracetamol at a time. I try to remember to pick up a couple of packets each time I go to the shops and DH does when I remind him sometimes but I run out regularly, so getting say 100 on prescription along with my naproxen would save me so much time and hassle.

I sure your GP would be happy to give you paracetamol on prescription. My FIL was recently given 200! I think he takes one a day as scared of addiction issues . I imagine than aspirin carries more risks of internal bleeds ans is less effective anyway than say, naproxen, but I'm only guessing.

Glad you have taken the day off pavlov, are work being ok? I wonder if your GP could try to expedite your London referral? You sound urgent to me with so much pain.

I'm just in from a very slow but lovely dog walk with my friend. Now on resting duties but do want to swim later. Recently my exercise regimes have really slipped. Is this because of high pain or is high pain due to less exercise?? It's hard to get motivated when so sore and also pools being renovated and therefore mobbed with children. Almost but not quite looking forward to September and quiet swims.

I get paracetamol on prescription.explained to gp how awkward it was to buy it in every shop I went into

I have also been given paracetamol on prescription- a large amount for convenience and also to encourage me to take it more often just to maximise overall pain relief.
If codeine works on you pavlov, and you dont have an issue with taking it ongoing, then could you try taking a low dose with paracetamol say three times a day, regularly, because it works better when it can build up- it may tip the scales for you a bit, I would still continue with the naproxen of course, just a thought :)

relieved you stayed at home, sounds like too much pain to be at work with. hope work are being reasonable and not playing guilt card on you
millytint know what you mean about stuff all over the house- I am not at home and it's not annoying then as it's not mine :)

I only have what works for me to go on but it can be useful to try different arrangements/timings of the meds to see what works for you- eg if you have 3 items you can try taking all at once to really drive pain back, or space out so you are taking something every two hours- keeping on top of it consistently. I find weird things like what you are doing when you take them domaffect effectiveness- if too active they sometimes dont work, better for me if I sit down and let them work for 15/20 mins.

I actually prefer codeine maizie to tramadol, but, when I take it for too long I become ultra irritable. Although, at the moment, I can take it as not at work and DH is off work today so has gone out with the children. I might try alternating it with the tramadol. I have codeine on it's own so I can mix those two and keep the paracetamol going alongside. When DH gets back with it.

DOH! I just spoke to the GP, who gave me some more diazepam and I completely forgot to ask for paracetamol! I might call and ask if they can pass on a message to her, rather than her calling me back yet again, if not will ask her. Once it's done it will be on repeat so only hassle once.

GP (female one this time, not spoke to her for a while), has given me another week off work, said I clearly should not be there. Also had a chat about nortryptline and she also thinks I should continue it as suggested by the other doctor. She said give it 2-3 weeks before making a decision re long term continuation.

matilda on one hand, I don't mind the London being later. Appt has come through in October, as it will be almost 6 months from last MRI, and they therefore might request another one. I was told they consider 'up to date' to be 6 months or less, so, especially as my pain is all over the place, I am hoping they might suggest another one. I would like them to do a standing MRI actually, if that's possible, as I really think a lot of what's going on is likely to be more obvious if I am standing (or sitting but doubt they can do that, or that I could sit for long enough!).

I still have not had a letter from my current neurosurgeon's secretary, despite her having already written it for me on Tuesday! Funny that...

Work are ok, but email didn't get to anyone til gone 11am so they were worried. Manager emailed to ask if I was ok, then 5 mins later got my emails. She said don't worry about work and she will clear my diary. Not my normal manager, she is off for some reason, not sure if sick or annual leave. There is no movements board any more and no notification of Manager leave or training elsewhere so it's chaos. No guilt from them, although I am sure my ears are burning, however, I feel terribly guilty, as always.

matilda how are you doing? Feeling any better yourself? You have had high pain levels recently, are they any way better managed at the moment?

denial how is work? Are you managing ok? Have you got your new meds yet? Or at least had the funding approved and on the road to getting them? I am sorry if you have already said and I have missed that.

Sorry there is so much pain around. Being at home I am better off taking the medicine as I don't have to make big decisions and when in pain I'm shouty horrible mummy! I think it's the gabapentin and nortriptiline that makes me muggy headed. The butrans is great and it's not often I get a buzz from codeine these days, if I do it only lasts half an hour at most. Once your tolerance is higher it doesn't make you woozy but still is effective for the pain - obvious when you stop taking them. I don't know about tramadol as I took them for about four months and didn't get any benefit or side effects, just withdrawal effects which weren't that bad but lasted about ten days - I took the full 400mg on slow release.

Pavlov - do get to the hospital if things start getting worse. Your symptoms are so worrying, I hope they are just from overdoing it and muscle spasm. Rest and medication is needed and being off work is a good opportunity to try new medication and see if the effects wear off.

Since the butrans I haven't had the full on disabling spasms and I'm so sure keep pain under control is key. I had four nights without cocodamol in September and I hardly slept, my back and pelvic muscles went into horribly painful spasm. Although I'm never completely pain free or have unrestricted mobility. Another thing is wearing a back brace type thing. The physio recommended it the other day. It's just to give the muscles a break for a hour in the morning and an hour in the evening, especially if doing something aggravating like a long walk, shopping or cooking. I'm just using a shape wear thing for now.

I am really hoping the end is in sight. Appointment booked for second week of August and I've called the pain clinic to send over the MRI scans. I'm being pushed by a friend to look at professionals and ask others for help. I'm not sure about professionals as the house is small and it's so expensive. I'm covered for the first four weeks of recovery so it's just the last two weeks and I am pretty sure my eldest will be in full time school then and I could book the littlest in to her nursery full time, perhaps with DH helping to do the pick ups or working at home. Asking other people for help just feels like more work to me. I don't think food will be an issue as we can stick with convenience food and people doing odd days isn't helpful either as it's a planning nightmare, plus I can't let guests do work and change pooey nappies. Family is different. I wonder if the school will let me park somewhere too?

queen, I wonder of you might be able to get a mothers help just for the beginning and end of the day for a few weeks. You certainly do need to be able to ask someone to change a pooey nappy . Let's hope the end really is in sight for you.

I took tramadol and gabapentin at lunchtime then fell asleep for an hour and woke up all spacey. I so want to get away from this feeling. I'm trying to get a private pain consultant and make a series of appointments to try to get me on a more even keel . I've been rather resistant to the idea of patches. This is because usually I don't actually need that level of pain relief 24/7. I'm beginning to see, though, that it makes more sense to keep me on an even level rather than having big peaks and troughs of pain so am ready to give them a try. I so need an expert to guide me through the process of trying new things. Ie switching Gapapentin to pregablin and amytriptiline to nortriptyline. It's very confusing and I feel I've lost control a bit. The diazepam definitely does help, but as well as a strong aversion to becoming addicted it also makes me very spacey.

Anyway, this afternoon I gave myself a big talking to and went for a swim. My exercise regime has suffered lately and I need my residual fitness. I also need the endorphines. I had a good session and then went to FIL for cuppa ( brownie points) and even dropped into supermarket and did some essential shopping. DH has just brought it in. So it proves I must keep going with normal activities.

Hope everyone is feeling okish. Especially those with small dc, I know just how difficult that is.

matilda i totally get the feeling that it's all become a bit confusing. I think sometimes we need to go back to the beginning and review the whole lot. I also agree, from my own experiences of peaks and troughs of pain that an even keel is better than ups and downs of pain. The problem with that for me is that I sometimes have days/weeks of okness and I really would prefer to not be medicated to the eyeballs in those periods in order to ensure that as my pain rises and falls I am covered. It's so difficult to know, hope the pain consultant gives you the support needed. Any ideas of how to go about getting this privately? I also think that changing to the cleaner versions of meds will help to clear your head a little. Diazepam makes me cloudy headed, quite like it actually as long as I don't have much to do, but I find the next day I can be quite sensitive/emotional and a bit tearful.

I feel better in terms of pain. Managed in that I can bear the pain now, rather than, as I would prefer, not in pain. I have taken: 100mg normal release tramadol this morning, with naproxen and omeprazole. No paracetamol as run out; at lunch time 60mg of codeine plus naproxen, 6pm 60mg codeine and naproxen. No paracetamol and I think that would give me just a little more positive boost, DH didn't buy me any as asked and I forgot to ask the GP for it on prescription. Didn't call back in the end as planned. I will take another 30mg of codeine to try and see me through to the morning. Some heat, tried a bit of ice. The problem with the ice, is I don't have a gel pack (burst them all in the microwave and not got new ones yet) so peas defrost and then I have to get up and put them back! lazy I think the meds plus the fact that I have done pretty much nothing at all apart from tidying the kitchen a little this afternoon has done me the world of good.

And you are so right about keeping going. It's a vicious circle though isn't it, need to keep going to keep feeling ok, but keeping going can often mean it hurts more, getting that balance right is difficult. Did you enjoy the swim? Feel it was worth it? I have not been swimming for ages. I have no time or energy. And I miss it.

Yes, I had a good swim. Only 600metres plus hydro exercises but it felt good. Sometimes swimming is an effort and sometimes it just flows. Not pain related, really, just how I swim. Also sometimes the pain and effort of getting there, in, out etc makes the benefit disappear. But today was nice. The leg float makes it possible, I wouldn't risk all that nerve- irritating kicking. Gives the arms and abs some work, though. They are currently revamping the whole pool area so there will be a fab new spa area which will be lovely.

Will try to go tomorrow and will def do my exercises in the morning. The pain/ laziness excuses stop right here.

I might go for a swim tomorrow. My gym membership has lapsed and I am too lazy to sort it out. So I might go for an outdoor swim at one of the lidos here. Not sure if I need my wetsuit, or if I should brave it in the cold. Normally, I would do cold no problem, but I wonder if that's a good idea, exercising in cold water that is likely to tense up my muscles even more? Apparantly the sea itself is around 21 degrees in Cornwall at the moment, but the lido is less likely to be heated to any degree!

Do you think I could use my headphones to swim in sea water? It will probably corrode the electronics won't it? I fancy a swim to some music, so along with the muscles thing, maybe outdoors won't work at the moment.

Maybe I will have to brave the main indoor pool Although, it has great lane swimming which doesn't have millions of children jumping around in, just depends on the time. I will call them I think.

and 600m is lots! I know that it's not much compared to what you have been used to swimming, but considering you are going through a significant flare up of pain, it's pretty good going!

I agree about the faff of getting there, getting in and out etc, sometimes feeling like it's not worth it, that's why I always used to do too much, as it seemed so pointless to do 10 mins.

Lovely long messages to read . My physio advised against doing exercises in cold water (ha ha....it's not cold it's frigging Queensland) but cold to her as it is winter of a fashion. She said the wouldn't be natural movements and it wouldn't be much fun. So perhaps the wetsuit is a good idea. If you can get it on of course. My husband is dressing me at the moment. Sexy.

Even keel...yes I hadn't thought of it like that. I had been resisting logging medication and feelings as I thought the act of writing would be focussing the mind too much ...and it is already taking so much of my life, but perhaps a simple log of pain relief, perception and location of pain, and activity undertaken would help to see patterns

My pain has moved again from my back to my bottom so think am popping out of the acute phase, hurray. Must remember not to get too excited and overdo it.

Hello, I'm new to mumsnet but not back problems unfortunately. I am sorry to read that so many people are in pain and are not getting support.
I am a36 year old, sahm, with on off flare ups of a herniated disc since 2007. My most recent caused my GP to finally send me for an MRI which showed multi level disc degeneration, most marked at l4/5 and a disc protrusion at l5/s1 with compression of the s1 nerve root. Explains why I have a numb right leg with deep pain in my hamstrings and ankle.
I was on a norspan patch 5mg, codeine+paracetamol (15mg) and Celebrex. I also have been given endep, which made me feel very drowsy. The dr gave me Lyrica last week which made me sick. I haven't taken it since but the dr thinks I should take it again as it's good for nerve pain.
I have a spinal consult on Friday, not sure what to expect really. Will it be surgery or injections. I am normal weight and have young children to care for.
Does anyone have experience of these drugs? Or any top tips to get through the day with this sort of pain?
Hoping to read through the messages later, it's nice to not feel alone with this. Thanks

Hi cinnamon, welcome ...I have limited experience but finding lyrica really helpful. I was v woozy to start with, not sick but light leaded and dizzy and unable to drive. Hope you get on okay at the consult.

Hi Cinnamon, welcome and sorry you Re suffering. I will need to look up some of your meds as not familiar with them all, are they brand names? I'm out his morning but will be back later.

Waves to all and hoping for steady pain levels all round.

pavlov, if you can't manage the wetsuit would a rash vest help at all? I've thought of it myself in the winter, though our outdoor pool is heated.