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I know emergencies happen in hospitals but sometimes it's not fair

36 replies

KatyMac · 17/04/2014 16:53

My mum was taken in on Mother's Day for bed rest as she had an ulcer

On Friday (last week) they decided she had a blockage in her artery & she needed a bypass
On Sunday they decided it might be urgent & on Monday it was urgent & to be done on Tuesday

Tuesday they told her they had not put her on the list at about 10 am (so she missed breakfast
Wednesday they told her that she had been bumped by an emergency & wouldn't be having surgery at 4:30 & then she only had a drink until 6; but that she would be first on the list today
Today she has still not gone down and is still nil by mouth and has had to have a drip put in as she is so dehydrated

& it's not fair

(of course it is fair and the people who were bumped really needed the surgery - I do know this)

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Ubik1 · 17/04/2014 16:56

It's not fair. Sad

There are just not enough resources.

VivaLeBeaver · 17/04/2014 16:56

You're right that emergencies happen but this isn't good enough and I can understand why you're not happy. If she doesn't have it done three days in a row then they don't have enough space on the list to accommodate the expected number of emergencies which will normally occur. I'd be very suprised if they've had three days in a row of unprecedented admissions.

What are they planning to do over the BH weekend. Not acceptable if they've previously said its urgent. Is it still urgent? If so why do they keep dropping her.

I'd start politely kicking up a fuss and contact PALS. Good luck

VivaLeBeaver · 17/04/2014 16:59

I know someone who waited three weeks for emergency spinal surgery. He had 17 days in total of being told it would be done that day, starved all day and then told late afternoon it couldn't be done.

He lost something like 2 stone and as he couldn't walk/get out of bed his muscles were quite wasted.

KatyMac · 17/04/2014 17:02

Will PALS be open over the weekend?

My poor mum is in a terrible state - she 'drinks' a lot during the day & was starting to get confused (before the drip)

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VivaLeBeaver · 17/04/2014 17:06

I'd be ringing them now, this minute incase they're not about over the weekend. Get some advice. If you can't get them now then ring the hospital and ask to speak to the matron with responsibility for surgery or the ward your mum is on. Again ring now as they won't be about at the weekend or probably tomorrow.

VivaLeBeaver · 17/04/2014 17:06

Because its bank holiday tomorrow isn't it?

Badvoc · 17/04/2014 17:09

Happened to me last year :(
After days of this ^ I broke down, phoned my mum, sobbed down the phone and she offered to pay for me to go private.
Which I did.
Had the op 2 days later.
It's awful.
The dr who saw me begged the hospital to open another operating theatre by they refused.

flow4 · 17/04/2014 17:17

That's rubbish KatyMac. It might be unavoidable and explainable, but it's still not fair. Your poor mum. I hope she gets her op very soon.

KatyMac · 17/04/2014 20:30

& she got bumped again at 7:55

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KatyMac · 17/04/2014 20:31

& she got bumped again at 7:55

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VivaLeBeaver · 17/04/2014 20:44

Have they told her she'll have to wait till Tues now or will they try again tomorrow?

flow4 · 17/04/2014 20:45

I'm so sorry. :(
And it's hard to complain while treatment is ongoing, isn't it? One feels so vulnerable...

TeamEdward · 17/04/2014 20:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KatyMac · 17/04/2014 21:02

They took the drip out & gave her a coffee

They were looking for a sandwich for her - but not holding out much hope

She is on the list for tomorrow as they have 2 surgeons on in the morning - excuse me while I laugh manically

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expatinscotland · 17/04/2014 21:05

Oh, yeah, don't get sick on a weekend, a bank holiday or at night. For so many crucial areas when it comes to healthcare, it is surprisingly 9-5, M-F.

VivaLeBeaver · 17/04/2014 21:21

But she's been waiting three non weekend/bank holiday days.

I work for the nhs and I know some times true emergencies, extra manic days happen. But I also know that hospitals try and save money by putting on as few theatre slots as possible and then stuff like this happens. Its not the fault of the front line stuff but the bean counter managers higher up dont give a shit.

KatyMac, I really hope it gets done tomorrow.

KatyMac · 17/04/2014 21:40

It's a 45 mile round trip & £2 parking

Between the two of us we have spent over £200 visiting since she went in - never mind the new PJs, snacks/treats etc we have taken in (& the £30 worth of wool so she could knit)

We are exhausted & my mum is fed up & I do hope they do it tomorrow

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alcibiades · 17/04/2014 21:46

The problem with the NHS is that the manglement (sic) have a different concept of "efficiency" from the medical and nursing staff. To them, "minimum" means the least they can get away with - beds/staff/theatres - and an empty bed or an empty theatre slot is anathema, because that's not cost-effective. It's factory economics applied to people.

alcibiades · 17/04/2014 21:51

Cross-posted with Viva - but that's because I wrote a huge rant, and then deleted most of it.

KatyMac - It is exhausting, not just the travelling and the expense, it's also the emotional aspects of the waiting. I hope your mum gets sorted out tomorrow.

KatyMac · 17/04/2014 22:17

My dad was a public sector management consultant.....he is desperate to get the power back to the nurses

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Tansie · 18/04/2014 09:45

To be fair, it's of course not the front line staff's 'fault', but, actually, nor is it necessarily 'the managers', by and large- though they do hold some blame. Mangers dare not go over budget or, ironically, they get fined. And yes, waiting lists do get manipulated because if a patient breaches their 'waiting time', the hospital, yes, gets fined. Which is a great way to make them 'improve', isn't it?

And sadly, the reality of 'efficiency' does boil down to ££. I personally wouldn't be delegating 'the power' back to the nurses- lovely idea but the NHS would be bankrupt within weeks. Budgets that size need handling by experts; and in fact the NHS does suffer a bit by having the upper tiers of middle management being occupied by certain ex-HCPs, and I can assure you they aren't fighting for the front line staff's needs! They're trying to keep moving onwards and upwards on the promotion trail via Keeping Under Budget, at whatever cost. Because that is Their Brief. It's in their job-description.

Another group I certainly wouldn't be delegating power back to is the Consultants. You'll rarely meet such a potentially self-interested group. You have to remember that, with the grades they got at school and uni they'd, were they not doctors, expect to be earning 6 figure salaries out-in-the-world so they demand that within the NHS and many work as if in charge of a personal fiefdom, even today. Do you recall a programme on TV 3 or 4 years ago by Gerry Robinson/Robertson about The NHS where he discovered a key blocker to efficiency was some senior doctors? I recall one anaesthetist going around the stock room labelling everything with its price to make everyone think before using something; her colleague heaped scorn on her as 'he'd use whatever he felt he needed at whatever cost'. Another senior reg was doing knee ops in 2 theatres; coming in when the patient was ready to be operated on, leaving when he'd finished so his junior could sew up and he himself moved to the next theatre to do the same, over and over. He was shunned by his colleagues who wanted to get away to the golf course (lierally!), citing 'safety' as the reason they'd only do one patient from beginning to end, at a time, hence half the number.

We have 'bought' into the concept of free health provision in this country to the extent that it has become a sacred cow. No government of any hue would dare actually bumping up NI and/or tax to the level needed to staff the ever increasing demands made upon the service now, let alone the oncoming elderly care crisis. There'd be an outcry. You only need to see what happens when a local hospital trust tries to shut down a small, inefficient 'cottage' hospital in order to centralise services and preserve money: MPs and locals waving banners, TV cameras trained.

So, in this way, the public is being mislead, too- disregarding the number of appointments casually missed, or drugs not taken, or physio not practised, or.. fags being smoked, alcohol being swilled, or chips being eaten...

Of course I genuinely sympathise with the OP's mum but it's a story being repeated up and down the land, and one that won't go away soon.

And for the record, I am a HCP, a true believer in the NHS but realistic enough to know that the pot will be empty by the time I need such an op.

ginmakesitallok · 18/04/2014 09:53

Sorry, all this moaning about how bad management is makes me cross. Most managers have a clinical background, and want the best for patients. Blame the fact that the government have messed around with the NHS for years, and that there just isn't enough resource in the system to deal with demand. Managers can't magic up more nurses, more beds etc.

ginmakesitallok · 18/04/2014 09:54

Sorry, all this moaning about how bad management is makes me cross. Most managers have a clinical background, and want the best for patients. Blame the fact that the government have messed around with the NHS for years, and that there just isn't enough resource in the system to deal with demand. Managers can't magic up more nurses, more beds etc.

ginmakesitallok · 18/04/2014 09:54

Whoops

KatyMac · 18/04/2014 10:19

Well she is up & prep'ed for surgery - they have put in a drip to pre-empt yesterdays problems

The surgeon has visited & said she hopes to do her today, emergencies pending

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