India Knight on MMR

[foundintranslation]

in the Sunday Times

ds (13mo) is having single measles next week. It took us a while to make the decision against MMR for our particular case and I really resent being told I am selfish and imbecilic.

Rant over.

Agree with you about men C expat. Although they did introduce it to young adults/teens first, before introducing it to infants so they go that bit right. Teens/young adults are the risk group though so I presume they will introduce a booster then and not just rely on a jab given as an infant.

No booster offered as of yet, JimJams.

F*cking nuggets. I'm not suprised. It's already on the CDC schedule for 11-13 year olds to get a booster. And now as vaccines are offered for free in the US, I'll be spending the next decade working my ass off so I can afford to take my girls there and get the fucking thing.

do you know what I love expat- although you vaccinate your children against everything, and I don't vaccinate my against anything, we always end up agreeing on these threads

the schedule is just so flawed and short-sighted you'd think someone on crack put it together.

i cannot find a catch-up schedule, for example, on the NHS website.

the efficacy of the old Hib vaccine is known to wane over the course of a year, but no booster is being offered to kids DD1's age - despite a recent BBC report that Hib is on the increase, even in kids who've been vaccinated. there's a f*&(ing no brainer. just checked the schedule, b/c DD1 is due boosters in the Autumn, but they offer dTaP/IPV or DTaP/IPV. huh? what's the point when there's no Hib protection? and i won't give her more mercury - God only knows what effect that had on the poor girl - she's still SO immature for her age.

then there's the pneumoccocal meningitis fracas - it's being delayed b/c no one wants to pay for it. but the real cost is in peoples' lives and also those left w/permanent disabilities after the disease.

the fact that two of our students who contracted mumps had to fight to get an MMR - a cheap old jab, blows my mind. DH had no mumps vaccine. he was born in 1977 and got single jabs. our old surgery flat out refused to give him MMR. i had to make noise and complain to the Health Minister.

they love me, not.

I agree with her. Only I wouldn't use such insulting language I must say.

But I do think avoiding MMR jabs is silly, in the main.

sorry everyone in advance - I have to go to Weight watchers folks now so I am not avoiding any flak thrown my way

It makes too much financial sense for the NHS to offer an MMR jab to adults who never had it, though, I guess. Despite increasing numbers of them falling ill w/nasties like mumps.

pmsl expat- I agree so much with your first sentence. Despite not vaccinating my youngest 2 at all, I am not particularly anti-vaccination. It's only a case of balancing risks after all, but you're right the schedule is barking. Meningitis C to babies- riiiight so are we going to revaccinate them as teens when they move into the highest risk group? err dunno we'll worry about that later. Just wait for a few to die first. MMR to babies- ok fair enough her immunity blah blah, and what do we do when they reach puberty and the "childhood" diseases become so much nastier- give them a booster?? err dunno but if there's an outbreak we can blame Wakefield so that's OK. Even though outbreaks have occurred in highly vaccinated populations (in the States- when they acted and introduced hoorah- a booster), and even though the outbreak in Japan was nothing to do with autism/MMR and everything to do with the particular strain causing meningitis and the governments delay in reintroducing monovalents. And hib??? what is the deal with hib? It used to be that immunity to hib was usually developed by 5 years old, so if you vaccinate - what happens to that? Surely repeated boosters are needed, if the protectuion wanes as it appears to.

My friend rang a radio 4 show discussing the MMR about 4 years ago and spoke to the someone high up in health there. He made exactly this point- that if you vaccinate babies then you have to provide boosters for life (not just in teens- as the vaccinated generation grows they will need further boosters). The high up health guy agreed with him. Still no sign of boosters though.....

Not sure of the reference- will look later if I have time, but apprently protection from monovalent mumps is considerably more effective than MMR mumps. Measles and rubella had little difference in efficiacy (although did read something years old- predating MMR controversy- which said that measles protection was slightly better from singles).

So they could (shock) vaccinate adults with the singles if they don't want to admit that MMR protection isn't lifelong.

Anwyay what was the deal with those adult nurses catching measles? Presumably they belonged to the vaccinated generation of they would have had immunity from natural infection.I can't believe all 8 of them or however many it was hadn't been vaccinated.

Adults who have NOT received MMR, or who got only one dose as a child, are not immune. At least not to mumps.

A major outbreak of the disease in Iowa this past Spring gave further evidence of this.

Not in the vaccinated generation no, but in the pre-vaccinated generation there was enough measles around that they usually were. Remember MMR was introduced in the later 80s to the UK, so for example when I was a primary school kid in the 70s there was still loads of measles around- enough for most people to be in contact (and its so contagious develop immunity one way or another). Mumps has always been a bit more hit and miss though.

Anyone born before the introduction of any measles vaccination (1953 I think) is assumed to be immune to measles because they would have been exposed to it and therefore have immunity.

Yes, but isn't it true that meales has only come back now because so many people don't vaccinate anymore? As long as we have herd immunity then no need for adult boosters?

The point I was making was that if the nurses were in their 20's then they would have had some form of measles vaccination presumably, monovalent or MMR, so if they're catching measles then that proteciton must have worn off. Unless all 8 of them weren't vaccinated at all which I think is unlikely.

No FairyMUm not true at all. The US intorduced boosters after outbreaks in highly vaccinated populations- at levels above that which should provide herd immunity.

Not true at all, Fairy. The US has close to 'herd' immunity. But mumps and measles still occurs, neither has been eradicated and won't be anytime soon.

Sorry, Jimjams, you are right as usual, I should have qualified that for the vaccinated generation. My parents are adults of course, who have immunity to measles, mumps and rubella b/c they contracted these diseases as children/teens.

Really? I didn't know that. My GP friends say it's only recently they have even seen measles in their patients. I am pretty sure it is because the vaccination levels are falling that measles are now coming back.

Measles never went away. And now w/their not offering MMR boosters to teens/young adults, or MMR to adults who never had it and came from the vaccine generation, you'll see more of it.

And the protection for the original highly vaccinated population is wearing off. pre introduction of universal vaccination children susceptible to measles would have caught it (whether they'd been vaccinated or not). With universal vaccination even susceptible children might not catch it, and then the pool of susceptibles becomes larger as vaccination wears off.

In the past vaccinated individuals receieved natural boosters from coming into contact with natural infection. Now they don't as there's not enough measles around. So it's only now that the policy put together by someone on crack as expat described it is beginning to fall apart. But no matter we can all blame Wakefield (even though he never said to to vaccinate and even though the vast majority of MMR refusers vaccinate singly). But never mind a smear campaign is cheaper than introducing boosters. And anyway most people recover so its probably acceptable collateral damage.

sorry Wakefield never said not to vaccinate

Sorry to resurrect a thread which is a few days old but I wish to clarify something.

Expat ? are you saying that teen/young adult MMR boosters are needed in addition to the MMR booster that is given at age 4/5 or are you talking about the population of people who got one dose of the MMR vaccination when it was first introduced but missed out on the Pre-school booster which was introduced some years later?

I?m not asking to be controversial ? just curious.

Is the MMR booster, which is given at age 4/5, given because it is thought to provide life-long immunity or is it given as a blanket vaccination to scoop up those (5%, I saw quoted) whose bodies do not react to the original dose of the vaccine?

Both of my boys had seperate injections because I deicded this was best for MY damily. I am anoyed by this article....probably explains why I don't read any papers.

'Expat ? are you saying that teen/young adult MMR boosters are needed in addition to the MMR booster that is given at age 4/5 '

Yes, there is increasing evidence that the MMR given at 4/5 does not confer life-long immunity.

Consequently, the Center for Disease Control in the US has added a booster for pre-teens/teens.

As this booster was added to the schedule only in past few years, a number of the now adult population - in which vaccine uptake is VERY high - contracted mumps in the Midwest this past Spring.

Interestingly enough, we had an Australian locum at our old GP surgery who was the only one there w/a brain.

When we took DD1 for her jabs, she noticed DH hadn't had a DPT since he was a child and gave him one on the spot.