New Intranasal flu vaccine for Toddlers . Yes or no ?

[IAmADonkeyOnTheEdge]

Just had a letter asking us to bring our 3.5 yr Dd for a flu vaccine ( up the nose !). No idea how they will persuade to sniff it up and also not sure if we should go for it or not.... Anyone else having it?

I know I might be asking for a bun thrown at my head here, but those who won't vaccinate for 'herd immunity'-why not?

Cards on the table, I think herd immunity is a good thing, not least as evidenced by polio (really good documentary by Ade Adepitan: Journey of My Lifetime) so I'm genuinely interested why you think it's a bad thing for flu?

The 50% refers to clinical risk groups < 65 years old.

"The sub-committee noted the recent initiatives to increase uptake of influenza vaccine in high risk groups aged

I assume parents who differ from me in not wanting their kids to "take a hit for the herd" do so because they think the risks are higher and/or benefits lower than I do. There is a tendency sometimes from pro-vaccinate-everyone people to characterise the reluctant ones as in some way selfish, freeloaders, whatever. I don't think this is true at all and such accusations tend to derail the thread in a hurry. I think anyone going in that direction will attract plenty of biscuits and they'll be lucky if it stops there

So I would try to focus on what people think the rushes and benefits are and assume for the moment that we are all equally public spirited...

"Risks and benefits" gah

Sidge - any idea how I could get my 12 year old DS that vaccine?

Perhaps those parents realise that such a tiny percentage of the population are going to be vaccinated that it's going to make feck all difference to the 'herd' and the 'herd immunity' argument is just being trotted out to guilt people into getting it? If you want your child to have the vaccine to protect them from flu then go for it otherwise, don't.

On a side note, I'm very interested to see how administering vaccines in this way pans out. It seems to make more sense for a virus to enter the body through a vaccine in the same way that it would if it was encountered naturally in relation to triggering the appropriate immune response etc.

bumbly - plan is to extend to every child age 2-16. So not a trivial percentage either in terms of absolute numbers or on effect on disease transmission - school-age children are the most effective to vaccinate. But I agree that very clearly the rationale by the government is herd immunity rather than individual benefit to this children vaccinated.

I am not sure if I am more or less confused now - but thanks Arkestra for the helpful links and Sidge/ Cptart it does help to know they don't have to sniff it up.

I think we will go for it - as if it helps prevent her from getting a nasty Flu, then I think its on balance a good idea.

Still not enough for herd immunity arkestra. Easier to get people to comply with a guilt trip - 'oh, it's to benefit the elderly who can get very ill with flu' (even though, as it has already been pointed out, the elderly/those most at risk of complications are already offered the vaccine and a large percentage of them turn it down) than to try to convince people that their children need another vaccine I guess.

it might be worth questioning why the elderly turn it down.

Both my parents have passed away now, but my father used to turn it down on the grounds that he was losing his faculties, nearly all his friends had died, and if flu carried him off, so be it - he found life less and less worth living.

I may sound heartless but unless an elderly person has dementia or other illness that may make it difficult for them to make an informed decision,then I think if an elderly person refuses a flu jab and then gets flu they have only themselves to blame.

then gets flu they have only themselves to blame

But this might be an outcome they are relatively happy with. I say relatively because if you asked my father what he would really have wanted it was to turn the clock back 35 years or so!

When I said " or other illness" I meant things like depression. Am sorry about your Father.

I won't be getting my DD vaccinated against the flu. I was pressured into getting the flu jab last year (I have asthma) and I've never been so unwell in my life (and that's with "dead" virus). This new spray contains weakened, live virus so I honestly think DD will react badly to it. The side effects are listed worse than normal vaccinations too. I'm not anti vaccination and my DD has had all her immunizations. This is a seasonal vaccine, so I may change my mind in a few years after it's more wide spread here in the UK. My DD has no health problems (luckily) and I'd rather she built up her own immunity as flu changes and adapts each year anyway. I also don't know of anyone who has had to receive hospital treatment for flu.

Bumbley - here's where the whole thing is coming from (JCVI) so it will give you the government/official line on exactly why they reckon it's the right thing to do. I realise you might not find it convincing, but at least it states their point of view completely...

[http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130402145952/http:/media.dh.gov.uk/network/261/files/2012/07/jcvi-statement-on-the-annual-influenza-vaccination-programme-25-july-2012.pdf]

webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130402145952/http:/media.dh.gov.uk/network/261/files/2012/07/jcvi-statement-on-the-annual-influenza-vaccination-programme-25-july-2012.pdf sorry

Catherina if your 12 year old doesn't fall into one of the 'at risk' categories then you may want to obtain it privately. Your GP may be able to do that for you, or you may be able to get it from a private provider such as BUPA.

MsPickle, you asked why those who didn't vaccinate for herd immunity didn't.

It might be a small risk but there is a risk to my child from this vaccine, I'm not prepared to take that risk for herd immunity, especially when the benefits are skewed in favour of those who aren't having the vaccine.

thank you Sidge - will shop around, atm it's more important to find a jab for DD who disappears off to medical school abroad in a week (waaaaaa). All commercial outlets don't start until the 30th around here...

MrsPickle I would refuse the vaccine for my child whether or not there are any risks involved. I simply view it as unnecessary for him to have it (in relation to his health). If the gov't wish to protect me from flu, then offer me the jab. Easy.
LaVolcan "Teach children to wash their hands properly...." Hee, hee. Not a hope

Thanks arkestra - it being 'cost effective' doesn't change my opinion on it, no.

No surprises there

But something being an effective use of the limited amount the government had to spend doesn't mean it's bad either. Saying something is "cost-effective" can seem very cold and uncaring but from my viewpoint they're justifying the policy in a way the policy makers can use when deciding whether to find the vaccine. Doesn't mean they don't care etc.

This is an interesting one because it's more "take one for the herd" than a lot of other vaccines. I'll go for it when it they roll it out to my kids age but it's interesting seeing what the others think.

"Fund the vaccine". I really am not getting on well wuty mobile. Oh well a rare night out now so will lay off the posting!

MsPickle, I would also refuse it even if there were no risks at all associated with it.

Another issue for me regarding the morality of this is that I have to consent on behalf of my child, I have to decide if my child wants to contribute to herd immunity, I mean when they get to 16 they can choose for themselves but for now I'm very uneasy (to say the least) about consenting on behalf of someone else. I don't know how my child feels about herd immunity.

It seems very odd to ask small children to 'take one for the herd' when a lot of the said herd i.e. the adults, don't want to know about it.