Is cancer really a disease of the industrialised society or...

[Tinker]

...would most of us get it eventually if we lived long enough? Are there really isolated societies where it is unknown?

It is isn't it but stems from a row with my brother who is adamant it is, and only is, because of industrialisation etc. I claim (fairly ) that it may also be because of other reasons.

Right, must tootle off to do some work.

He claimed it was unheard of in Aborigines, for example. I wondered if they just died younger.

people just died younger before they got cancer. I used to work in the local archives and the some of the 'causes of death' had to be seen to be believed! Death from 'teething' and 'dentition' was very common, page after page of measles, and lots of 'Visitation from God' - what a way to go

I'm sure I've read historical novels about families where cancer took one of the characters. I know novels aren't the basis for much, but usually they're well researched I don't think it's necessarily a new industrialised thing - the term "cancer" might not be used necessarily though, as without industrialisation diagnosis would be based more on symptoms?

If you look at Samuel Peeps diaries from around the mid 1600's there are diagnoss of cancer at that time.

OTOH - if they are right with the research that seems to indicate that lack of vitD could play a part in some cancers then sticking people in factories and offices away from sunlight - rather than subsistencce farming outdoors is likely to have had an impact.

As is a lot of the rubbish food that we eat!

As is delaying having babies.

As is the general increase in air borne polution and carginogenics in our environment.

And of course, living much much longer increases our liklihood of getting it!

Really I suspect the list of possible causes just gives too many variables to be able to pin it down to a particular age or set of circumstances.

Good, I'm liking this, I'm winning

Apparently, lack of sleep (or was it not enough sleep in darkness?) gives you breast cancer now. So, what happens to me, being woken 2 or 3 times per night to breastfeed???

Industrialised societies tend to have better social care & more advanced hospitals/doctors (and easier access to them) - so cancer would be easier to diagnose in the UK than, say, the Amazon rain forests

One theory is that a lot of us are built with dodgy genetic faults causing cancer, as at some point in the history of humans, we were wiped out to a total population of under 100,000 and so the result is that we are all massively inbred. Don't we all originate from 7 women in the Med?
A bit like mongrels being relatively long-lived and healthy, and pedigrees not lasting so long, and more often than not, getting a tumour.

Oh, that sounds an interesting theory. May google that, thanks.

Tinker, it's utter rubbish, honestly. It's not just a case of dying early from other causes it's also genetic make-up. There are all sorts of things that are attributed to healthy diets and stuff that are really just differences in the genetic background of populations. It's just not feasible that there can be whole populations that are resistant to cancer- if there were we'd all be studying them like mad, believe me!

Oh, and the breast cancer link is possibly true- there is a higher incidence of breast cancer in shift workers than non-shift workers, and the obvious explanation is disruption of circadian rhythms. I honestly don't think waking up in the night for feeds is a big problem, not to mention the fact that breastfeeding is in itself protective against breast cancer

YES! Tamum speaks! My brother believes everything in What Doctors Don't Tell You. He thinks all herbal stuff is better than conventional medicine despite it being pointed out that everything is chemical.

We get on really but I am enjoying being right on this [ grin]

am sure most cancers can't be diagnosed without v sophisticated medical knowledge/equipment. How could you diagnose e.g. ovarian cancer, stomach cancer, bowel cancer etc without scans and probes?

I don't know how you'd be able to prove that people didn't get cancer before the industrial revolution or in developing countries - the data just wouldn't be there.

Tinker

(how's the situation with the horrible neighbours by the way?)

Yes, more good points CarolinaMoose.

Still horrible Tamum. Well, I just ignore them but they do sepak to my partner (traitor). Feed the baby before she has any chance to really start crying so not tested their "shut up" response for a while. But hear liberal use of the F word through the walls and in the back garden.

And agree with all the other good points being raised here as well.

Oh god, how awful. Is there any hope of moving?

There is hope. When we've finished the bathroom.

Thanks for asking.

Ah, that problem. Men eh. Oh good that you're not feeling completely trapped, at least, however awful it is in the meantime.

CarolinaMoose - cancer could be diagnosed in ye olde times because there's often a flipping great tumour!!! As far as I know autopsies have been carried out for centuries. (Happy to be corrected on that one) On the breastcancer thing, my s-in-l said she'd heard a story linking BC to the lactating hormone that cows are given to increase milk production. She also believes that it's this hormone in milk that is encouraging the earlier onset of puberty in girls too. Might all be total hogwash but I try to only give DS organic milk now. (I know that higher protein diets are also considered responsible for earlier puberty)

haven't read whole thread on lunch break but my mum had b cancer and i watched her shave her armpits everyday and apply deodorant so i certainly wouldn't use aluminium deodorants now.

Think the jury is still out re anti-perspirant and breast cancer