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Original poster

I know MMR again! Advice needed

27 replies

Tarynsmummy · 19/06/2006 10:55

Yeah I know this seems to be a never ending topic of discussion, but I am a little confused as what to do.
My dd is almost 5 and has not had the MMR, I am now starting to worry about her contracting measles- as she starts school in sept and who knows what she will get from other kids. I have read up on a lot of info, and one of the reasons why I didn't let her have it when she was 15 months was because of the risk of autism. I thought there was a lot of confusion about it and decided to leave it a while.
So, I have waited, my gp as stopped sending reminders and I had put it to the back of my mind, but now I am not sure. Does anyone know the probability of a child catching measles? As a mother my instinct is to protect her, but am confused as to what I am protecting her from- measles or the possibility of something worse like sub-acute sclerosis pan encephalitis. I know its a huge debate and there are so many view-points. I just want someone to say "the probability of your child getting measles is... compared to dying from mmr treatment is..."
Can anyone help?

OP posts:

sparklemagic · 19/06/2006 11:08

Taryns, did you consider having the seperate jabs? They are available seperately from private clinics, obviously you have to pay...we did this for our Ds, were concerned about MMR but didn't want to leave him vulnerable to measles as have experience in our family of how devastating it can be - my lovely uncle had it as a child, almost died and has never been 'strong' since and is infertile due to complications.

So I did take measles seriously and thought it was worth paying for the seperate jabs. Why don't you look into this to give you peace of mind before your DD starts school?

Sparks · 19/06/2006 11:44

I don't think you could get anybody to give you those kind of probabilities over the internet. Or if they did I wouldn't trust them, because there are a lot of variables. They would have to know a lot about measles epidemiology and a lot about your dd to say anything useful.

A boy in my daughter's class and his sister had measles recently. My first thought was I'm glad I had dd vaccinated.

foundintranslation · 19/06/2006 11:54

I agree with Sparks. I have found this a very difficult one - ds (13mo) would probably be alright with the MMR but because he appears to have some risk factors there is the small risk it could all go horribly wrong; if he got measles he would probably recover well but there's always the small risk of serious complications. (Vaccine also, of course, does not completely eliminate the risk of catching the disease). I am pro-vax but sympathetic to a lot of anti-vax arguments. In our particular case the best compromise has been to go for singles - ds is having the measles jab on Thursday.

shazronnie · 19/06/2006 11:55

This is only my opinion, but I think you should view measles as a potentially deadly disease, whereas children do not die from autism. Any link has never been proved and has been pretty much discredited.

Also remember mumps can lead to male sterility, and rubella is dangerous to pregnant women.

One final thought - what if your child caught measles, was fine but passed it onto a child who was very poorly and suffered complications?

You can prob guess I am in favour of MMR!!

bluejelly · 19/06/2006 11:57

On the ITV news the other day it said that 1 in a 1000 children who contract measles go on to develop encephalitis/meningitis

bluejelly · 19/06/2006 11:59

Also there are kids out there who have compromised immune systems ( eg are HIV or have cancer) who cannot have the MMR.
You need to vaccinate your child in order to protect them too...

shazronnie · 19/06/2006 12:03

i agree Bluejelly; we have to think of the community as a whole, not just the effect on our own child.

Socci · 19/06/2006 12:04

shazronnie - I think that statement is way too simplistic about autism and measles. The chances of complications from measles are quite slim in a healthy child. Whether or not a child dies of autism isn't really the point - autism is no walk in the park and imagine how devastating it would be to have a child who was talking and learning normally only for them to regress? It's hard to imagine but as the parent of a child with autism I find it quite irritating when people gloss over it as if it's not a big deal to live with.

Tarynsmummy I would say that the chances of regression are much smaller in a child over 5. I would just read as much as you can and then decide. You have various options open to you.

Socci · 19/06/2006 12:08

\link{http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=138&threadid=182124&stamp=060615122435\here} is a recent discussion on MMR.

shazronnie · 19/06/2006 12:16

I agree I made a huge generalisation, and I certainly think autism is v hard to deal with. Sorry if this offended you, Socci.

But I would still choose a tiny unproven risk of autism over a tiny real risk of death.

It is a difficult decision, and you are right to say read as much as you can to make your own informed decision.

Original poster

Tarynsmummy · 19/06/2006 13:08

Thanx all, I am generally pro-vax, its just the thought that either way someting bad could happen to her and it would be my fault. I suppose I am being selfish because I don't want that kind of pressure laid upon me. It would be easier if I was told it was compulsary!

I have looked into single jabs, but as a single parent in f/t uni I just can't afford it.
I think I'm gonna read up some more on it, then make a decision in the nxt couple of weeks

OP posts:

SabineJ · 19/06/2006 13:14

Regarding autism, as far as I know, they have been studying babies receiving the jab at 1yo, not older children. What was true (but is it ?) for 1yo babies will be very different with older children. I don't think that any studies have ever said hat giving the MMR to an older child will increase the risk of autism. That's understable because they will be at a different stage of the brain development and autism seems to be a dysfunction of the brain.
In the same way, in France, they have been vaccinating babies and adolescents for Hepatitis B until they actually discovered that some (very very few) adolescents were then developing MS but that the vaccin didn't have that effect on babies. So the vaccination of babies is still recommended but the mass vacination of adolescents has been stopped.
Conclusion of this long thread : I would have my 5yo vacinated for MMR as I do't think that the risks - if any - would be as important than the complications associated with one of these illnesses.

sparklemagic · 19/06/2006 17:53

taryns, we couldn't afford it either, I can't tell you the level of financial problems we have had since having DS - but it's gone as far as having to sell our house.

Luckily for us we were able to get an overdraft from the bank for this (well, added to the one we already had). I just thought that in the great scheme of life this £80 was worth paying and we would deal with finances later.

JoshandJamie · 19/06/2006 18:01

Please just read this article from this weekend's Sunday Times. www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2230936.html

Before my child had his MMR jab I had the same concerns as everyone else. In fact I was blasted by two 'friends' who are doctors who told me I was a bad mother for even considering giving it to him. Well I read and read and read and basically decided that the risks of not giving MMR far outweighed the risks of giving it. Having read this article, I feel vindicated - and really, really pissed off with Andrew Wakefield

Pixel · 19/06/2006 18:59

\link{http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,6-2231905,00.html\here}
Sorry couldn't read past the first paragraph.

shazronnie · 19/06/2006 20:06

interesting article joshandjamie; I actually agree with alot of the content but it has definitely been written to provoke!

JoshandJamie · 19/06/2006 20:10

That's not actually the article I had in mind - there were several in the SUnday Times and the one I was referring to didn't have that header. It was more impartial but very much still blasting Wakefield.

drosophila · 19/06/2006 20:30

I didn't give DS MMR cos he is severely allergic to egg. I was offered Vac in hosp where they would have everything to hand if he reacted. I hesitated and a little while later he contracted measles. I was beside myself with worry thanks largely to the Media. My mum couldn't understand my panic and dug out some old leaflets she had from the 1950's which strangely reassured me.

One of the problems catching measles now is Doc's don't recognise it and often don't know how to treat it e.g. you should increase your intake of orange food (carrots and sweet potato) which is high in Vit A. \link{http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0887/is_n3_v11/ai_12160611\here}.DS was very poorly and I wouldn't wish it on anyone but I believe in a healthy child with a good diet the risks are fewer.

I am going to give DD the single jabs cos we can afford it and I am a little unconvinced by recent articles. My concern is not autism so much as a family history of bad reactions to various vaccinations.

Hillary · 19/06/2006 20:41

I'v never had any vaccination of any sort, neither has my two children, brother, sister, 4 Aunts and about 20 cousins, mainly as we are all allergic to many drugs and egg, the only things my cousin had was Whooping Cough and my sister got Scarlet Fever appart from that we are all fine!

Pixel · 19/06/2006 23:18

Sorry Joshandjamie, that was my fault. I typed in what you put and just got an error but I thought I'd found the article you meant. Just trying to be helpful, honest

amyjade · 20/06/2006 10:23

Hillary
You and your family are very lucky my Dd1 died from a childhood disease for which there is now a vaccine. You obviously have a very good medical reason not to vaccinate against killer diseases such as meningitis but for the majority of the population it is extremely important to protect your children and others.
I hope you or the rest of your family never have to lose a child in the way i have.
Dd2 has had every vaccination plus Prevenar the vaccine which would have saved her 19 month old sisters life, she will be having her MMR next month without a doubt.

satine · 20/06/2006 10:33

I have never read any medical evidence substantiating Wakefield's claims. I feel his interests are tainted - his business interests include - surprise surprise - single vaccines. And herd immunity has been compromised by his reports, so that doctors who have never encountered measles are now seeing cases, and an epidemic, which isn't all that unfeasible, could lead to deaths and serious illness amongst our kids. I feel so strongly about the importance of vaccination - the spread of so many terrible diseases has been halted by them. But most of these illnesses could make a reappearance, if given the chance.

FairyMum · 20/06/2006 10:34

Of course you are likely to be fine Hilary. Others have vaccinated their children and protected you and your family from these illnesses!

Socci · 20/06/2006 10:40

It's a bit unfair to jump on Hillary just because she has a different pov from you. Not everyone believes in vaccination.

amyjade · 20/06/2006 10:45

Nobody's jumping on her Socci, we are just stating our own personal opinion for which i have a very good reason.

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