Refusing to vaccinate your child

[Organic100]

For a while now I have been researching the dangers of vaccines and all the cases of children dying or being made sick after having a vaccine, all of which is not reported in mainstream media. How do you feel about vaccines? I've heard that the medical profession encourages pregnant women to get the flu vaccine, and that babies are vaccinated at birth. I've also researched stories where parents have been reported to social services by a spiteful doctor or nurse, simply for refusing their child a vaccine. It seems parents are losing their rights. What do you think?

Bruffin, plenty of people here have struggled to get their child's reactions to vaccines taken seriously (and we're not talking about sore arms ) Even you are dismissive of them! "Vaers can also be distorted by those looking to make a case for litigation and by those who confuse causality and correlation." How can you approach something objectively if your opinion from the start is "it can't possibly be the vaccine'. I've never seen anyone treat reactions to food/medication in the same way.

I didn't know that Goldmandra and my question was asked in good faith, because I was curious.

Why do you think Trazzle would be offended? It is not something most people would know.

"5% of those who have had rubella dont have any immunity"

Funny claim, considering that most people don't even notice that their kids have had rubella and ime doctors won't diagnose "rubella" without a blood test.

The tiny percentage of girls who didn't get immunity from the disease or those who haven't had it can be easily caught and vaccinated during screening as teenagers.

By the way, I had measles twice because I didn't get immunity to it when I first had it as a baby. I got measles again at the age of 8.

Cote - if your child contracts rubella, you risk that your child spreads rubella, since rubella is contagious before being symptomatic.

And so?

Have you ever seen what rubella looks like?

It's scary only for non-immune pregnant women and it would be easy to catch those by screening teenage girls and vaccinating those who are not immune.

Cote I'm not offended or upset by your question. I didn't know before Joe's diagnosis.

He was fully vaccinated before he was diagnosed. However, during his treatment his immune system has been basically annihilated. He is at risk of picking up any illness. The most likely source of infection is in his own digestive system. He's not allowed to eat yoghurt or probiotics because his immune system can't keep the friendly bacteria under control so they would become unfriendly in high numbers.

But yes, his previous vaccinations cannot be relied upon at all. They are effectively worthless.

I might be riding on the back of herd immunity, but I didn't ask anyone to vaccinate, im looking out for my child(ren), not anyone else's. I don't expect anyone is looking out for my children either, I wouldn't expect them too.

is that really the case that A previous vaccine doesn't work if a child is diagnosed with cancer? Is it just a cancer diagnosis that renders a previous vaccine useless or is it other conditions too? If that s the case, another good reason to avoid vaccines, I mean, the very time your child might need protection from the disease , the vaccine is rendered useless.

Its not a funny claim, why do you assume the natural disease will give immunity for life and the vaccine wont? As mentioned numerous times before there is no evidence
Also why do you think it is a disease that is easy to get in childhood?
How do you think 10s of 1000s were affected by CRS in the 60s in the US. All those pregnant women obviously didn't catch it as a child.
this article is just about a deaf college

If that s the case, another good reason to avoid vaccines, I mean, the very time your child might need protection from the disease , the vaccine is rendered useless.

But it would be very nice to have herd immunity to protect them.

We have been routinely vaccinating against some of these diseases for over 50 years, i would have thought we would know the long term problems by now

I was vaccinated as a baby and am over 50 yrs-I don't know of any of my peer group who are experiencing, or have experienced problems, from it.

It's not the cancer that affects his immune system. It's not the diagnosis. It's the chemotherapy that kills the cells and in Joe's case, his bone marrow. I can't speak for other cancers, possibly the treatment regime for some means previous vaccines are still helpful. They aren't for my DS.

I think it's a bit odd to use the unlikely possibility of your child getting cancer as a reason not to vaccinate! I'm still pleased for the protection he's had so far in his life. He'll be re-vaccinated provided he survives.

Goldmandra, you said: "The NHS wouldn't be very likely to continue vaccinating children if it caused masses of auto-immune problems and more damage in vaccine reactions than the diseases themselves could cause. That wouldn't be ethical or cost effective."

I notice my earlier post went unmentioned (they usually do, when they say something that rabid pro-vaxxers don't like). I was in exactly this situation. I had a (NHS) paed refuse to tell me my child's test results, and insist I vaccinate, when those very test results (which he was withholding deliberately so as not to 'muddy the waters' ) meant that vaccination was contraindicated.

Thank fuck I had refused vaccination, and thank fuck I stood my ground. The NHS (ime) does not have a great track record of informed consent for vaccines, neither does it have a good record when it comes to tracking and recording notifiable diseases (mumps - initially refused to test for it, despite agreeing that it was probably mumps)

Dear God!!! What a horrible set of posts. Why cannot people just vaccinate children so that ALL our children are protected. It is sensible, humane, caring, scientifically proven to work, and I am sick of people pleading special cases and quoting weird research. In previous decades people were crying out for vaccinations, now all people seem to do is find fault with them. Crossing the road has dangers - far greater than a risk posed by vaccination.

I was vaccinated as a baby and am over 50 yrs-I don't know of any of my peer group who are experiencing, or have experienced problems, from it.

Are all your friends in robust good health?

I too am over fifty and without pausing for more than a minute I can think of six people I was at school who have already died of cancer, and a number suffering with arthritic conditions. These seem to have affected them at an earlier age than my parents generation were affected. The problem is, we can't say what the cause was - diet, environmental pollution, smoking; it could be any number of these or other factors.

My father never had a vaccination in his life and lived to 90, with almost no illness until his last 5 years, but one example doesn't prove anything.

Trazzle, I'm so sorry to hear that your little boy is so unwell. :(

Blackmogul, I agree about crossing the road, everything in life carries risks. You have to weigh up the odds for yourself, most people will still cross the road, most will vaccinate, most will go on a plane. But some won't.

But I am saying I object on moral grounds, I do nt believe there are any benefits to a 13 month old or 4 year old from a mumps or rubella vaccine so the reason for doing so is to protect someone else. That's my moral and ethical objection.

Earlier on it was mentioned that someone going to hospital with an injury would be offered a tetanus vaccine. This will be ineffective against any threat of tetanus from the current injury and the same vaccine vaccinates against diphtheria and polio. Is it explained to people that the tetanus vaccine will do nothing for any current threat of tetanus? I don't think so, it certainly wasn't explained to me but I knew and refused the vaccine. I also consider this highly immoral.

Life is cruel and unfair, you can only do what you think is right. How many people, honestly would admit to putting the wellbeing of another child before their own. I bet every parent will put their own child first. I hope so, it's only moral to do so.

Black, that's very rude. Some of the 'special cases' that you are sneering at are on this thread.

Have you missed/ignored the posts that have talked about waning vaccine immunity creating problems by pushing the disease into age groups that are more prone to complications? It's not as simple as 'have the vax, protect everyone for life' as nice as that would be.

cereal I am finding more and more that the NHS doesn't have a great track record of seeking informed consent in any arena.

no where on this thread has it been established that waning immunity is a problem.

Rubella has been virtually eliminated in the UK and US. after 30 to 40 years of vaccination there would be signs by now.

mumps at university doesnt mean that immunity has waned when most of the cases were in completely unvaccinated and the rest could easily have been the small percentage for whom vaccines dont work. As said previously you need to know what percentage of the vaccinated population of the university actually caught mumps.

mumps at university doesnt mean that immunity has waned when most of the cases were in completely unvaccinated

Not necessarily so.

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/clinical/therapy-areas/infectious-diseases/immunity-to-mumps-from-mmr-jab-waning/20003543.article#.UiCt8D_nKdc

That article doesnt contradict amythihg i have said. Unless you know the percentage of those who have been vaccinated that got mumps in that community, the figures are meaningless.

Are all your friends in robust good health?

Yes-on the whole.

My father never had a vaccination in his life and lived to 90, with almost no illness until his last 5 years, but one example doesn't prove anything.

I don't see what that has to do with it. I was replying into the person that said we don't know the long term effects of vaccination and was saying that all of those who were vaccinated over 50 yrs ago don't appear to have any.

bruffin - "no where on this thread has it been established that waning immunity is a problem"

You clearly have Internet access so could have found this out for yourself, but I'm happy to help

If only 66-86% (depending on one or two doses) of 11-12-year-olds are still immune, what must the figures be like for 20-year-olds?

And I was replying that health problems in later life could be caused by a multiplicity of problems; vaccine damage could be one for some people, as indeed some examples have already been given on this thread. Just because neither you nor I know anyone personally doesn't mean they don't/didn't happen.

My father would have sworn that vaccinations weren't necessary and have given his long life as proof, but I wouldn't go so far to say that myself.

My mother is over 90 and still going strong with vaccinations. I think it is a red herring to start on that one.
All I meant is that we haven't got news stories about over 50 yr olds suddenly experiencing health problems due to childhood vaccinations.