Refusing to vaccinate your child

[Organic100]

For a while now I have been researching the dangers of vaccines and all the cases of children dying or being made sick after having a vaccine, all of which is not reported in mainstream media. How do you feel about vaccines? I've heard that the medical profession encourages pregnant women to get the flu vaccine, and that babies are vaccinated at birth. I've also researched stories where parents have been reported to social services by a spiteful doctor or nurse, simply for refusing their child a vaccine. It seems parents are losing their rights. What do you think?

I wonder what would happen if they vaccinated teenage girls and teenage boys...

CatherinaJTV - one reason we might not see CRS in the UK is because the mother will be offered a termination www.patient.co.uk/doctor/Congenital-Rubella-Syndrome.htm

I read a report that said cases of CRS were more likely to be the result of women catching rubella from young men. Some time ago this was, but after the vaccine was introduced - presumably waning immunity. They should vaccinate teenage girls. MMR is unnecessary because rubella vax is unnecessary except for young women. It's an unnecessary risk.

In fact given the rubella component of MMR is expected to wane around the time women start getting pregnant the whole exercise seems completely pointless.

LaVolcan thank you for that link.

In fact given the rubella component of MMR is expected to wane around the time women start getting pregnant the whole exercise seems completely pointless.

This is something that I find very worrying, and the first time many women will be tested for it will be at the booking-ante natal clinic, when it could be too late for that pregnancy.

I wonder if specialsubject went away and googled AFP and polio in India. I hope so.

There is no indication that rubella immunity wanes after 2x MMR and if Japan did vaccinate boys and girls they would not see CRS. As for abortions, you really have to make up your mind: either rubella is still circulating and just not tested for, or it is tested for and all CRS babies are aborted. If you read the link you posted it confirms everything I said: routine vaccination has all but eradicated rubella, most women get screened before pregnancy and are immune. Rubella is not endemic to the UK.

I don't think most women do get screened for rubella before their first pregnancy in the UK.

How long does it last?

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/vaccinations/Pages/mmr-questions-answers.aspx#long says
It seems to be very long lasting.
Virtually everyone (more than 99%) will be protected against measles and rubella for more than 20 years after two doses of MMR.

The key question here which must be asked, is how many more than 20 years? Otherwise, great, (not) your immunity could be wearing off just as you hit your prime child-bearing years, and you probably won't know this for the first pregnancy.

20 years it says there. Which is exactly what I said - around the time women start getting pregnant.

Plus: given anecdotal accounts, where they don't swab or test for rubella, or only very rarely, and where it's so mild it might not even be noticed, and where it can be and no doubt is dismissed as a viral something, then I don't think you can guarantee immunity figures are correct.

Like one documented case in the UK in your link Catherina ? Yes, sure.

The is absolutely no evidence that this is happening - rubella does not circulate, most women are screened and are immune.

Not my link, levolcan's.

The is absolutely no evidence that this is happening - rubella does not circulate, most women are screened and are immune.

Catherina - I really don't know how you can state categorically that this is so. The NHS gives a figure of 20 years - it could be more, but they don't appear confident enough to give a figure. It's pretty irrelevant for a UK woman to know that things are done differently in Germany - the majority of us are not going to up sticks and move.

I certainly wasn't tested for immunity to rubella until my booking-in visit at the ante-natal clinic, but this was a good number of years ago. I was immune - I caught it in my teens, but this was the first lab test for immunity that I encountered.

Has it changed now? Do the majority of women go for a pre-first pregnancy screening? For subsequent pregnancies yes - you can be offered MMR post birth. But no-one checks that it 'took' until, yes, you guessed it, you go for the booking visit, which is going to be 8-10 weeks.

LeVolacan's link. Same difference - official figures can't be trusted. Rubella does circulate.

"The is absolutely no evidence that this is happening"

Well - yes there is. The fact that it happens to women. Of course it's not written about in a scientific journal because it's not part of a study. So I'm guessing you don't believe them.

At least 20 years and there is no evidence of waning immunity how many years after the vaccine got introduced? 40?

You mean there are cases if CRS that we don't hear about? I am sure you have some sort of evidence for that?

I told you there was evidence of waning immunity - grown women catching it from their partners.

I mean the "not testing until you're already pregnant" happens.

The biomedical literature is full of reports on rubella immunity, outbreaks and case reports...

Sure that happens, it is bad practise, I think we agree on that, but luckily, since most people are vaccinated, even if a woman found herself pregnant and non immune in the UK, her risk of coming into contact with a case if rubella is small. That is different in areas with low vaccination coverage, like the Dutch Bible Belt and in countries with a girls only rubella vaccination policy like Japan.

Catherina - you clearly don't know the UK system. MMR started to be phased in, for children of about a year old in 1988. So the oldest ones to have had it will now be 26. The NHS, as we have already discussed, states that the immunity lasts 20 years. I suspect it's a bit longer. I seriously do wonder how long it will be before we see CRS cases happening again because women won't know that their immunity could have waned.

My daughter was vaccinated under the old regime of rubella vaccination at puberty. I asked her, had her immunity ever been tested? No. Did she know it might not last? No.

Sorry for the shorthand posts I am on my phone. Women in Japan catch rubella from their partners, not in the UK (unless you have some evidence? I have not seen anything to that effect in the literature). Japan only vaccinated girls - a bad idea since that us not enough to stop circulation of rubella.

And BTW my daughter travels a lot so could easily come into contact with it in another country and also be in the early stages of pregnancy.