Sodium Benzoate - anyone know if it can be absorbed through the skin?

[sipper]

I'm not sure which section to post this under so please redirect me if I've opted for the wrong place.

For various reasons, I avoid drinks containing sodium benzoate.

I've seen it's listed as an ingredient in a shower product I use and also a shampoo. I don't know how I haven't spotted it before - probably I forgot to look when i first purchased and then it slipped my mind.

What I don't know, and would like to find out, is whether sodium benzoate is absorbed through the skin. If it isn't then it might not matter that it's an ingredient, but if it is then I'd rather not use any brands that contain it.

Does anyone know the answer to my rather random question?!

Many thanks.

Also....all benzoids (or whatever they are called!!)?

Anything that can be absorbed through the skin has to, by law, be classed as a medicine. So the answer is no.
(Also, this is why aromatherapy is just nice smells.)

Hi *DontActuallyikePrunes Thank you for replying. Presumably not everything has been tested for that specific law? Otherwise ingredients such as aluminium/aluminium compounds or parabens that are shown to be absorbed by the skin (and have bad effects ) would be classed as medicines (or declared in some way?). Which makes me feel that a medicine classification law doesn't really cover us for lots of nasties that we might be slapping directly on our skin in various guises. I wonder how I can find out whether benzoates do get absorbed (or if molecules too big to get through...or whatever the technical description would be!!!). Arghhh!!!

I was looking into this recently. Ingredients and formulations must be approved and any new formulations certified by the appropriate body.

I assume that somewhere (in the British Pharmocopoeia?) there will be data on how much of a given ingredient can be absorbed by the skin.

The skin has several layers, and so some chemicals will get into the upper epidermis (this is how face creams work) but the key is whether or not the ingredients will penetrate so deep as to get into the bloodstream. (Think about painkilling gels or HRT patches.)

But anyway, if you're unsure - just avoid!

Thank you DontActuallyLikePrunes I agree with you that if unsure it's best avoided. The topic does worry me in general though - take aluminium as the example. It is included in most of the big brand deodorants. It is also shown to permeate the skin. And it is implicated in serious illness - such as alzheimers. That makes me feel that the law does not protect us at all otherwise such an ingredient would be either banned or have to be highlighted on pack in some way to make the consumer aware of the risk. I wish there was a way of finding out about this particular ingredient (sodium benzoate).

I'd say that removing aluminium from your diet would be a far more effective way of lessening exposure.
I remember when aluminium saucepans were phased out because of Alzheimers.

There are loads of alu saucepans still on the market and because they are cheap they probably sell really well as the affordable option.

Really? I thought they'd all gone.

Personally, I'm not worried about a bit of aluminium on my skin, because the skin is really not very efficient at getting things into it, it's an organ of excretion after all.

Yes indeed (sweaty days.....sorry, I mean glowing (!) days vouch for that!!). But because a fair amount can also be absorbed I really want to find an answer to the benzoate thing. Skin is cleverly designed to excrete but it was never intended to be exposed to half the stuff that gets rolled/rubbed/washed on to it. And sadly yes those blooming pans are still out there. Saucepans, rice cookers, etc. Urgh!

Looking for Benzoic Acid, rather than the salt come up with several journal articals, but I can't access the full text from home.

See benzoic acid, caffeine, and testosterone absorption or organic materials

I thought the 'link' with Alzheimers had now been discredited?

Thank you nextphase Yikes! Seems it is absorbed. Think I'll be crossing that shower gel and shampoo of my shopping list. What a shame! Or....is the salt going to be different (bigger molecules?) and so might not be absorbed? Is this an area you work in? If you have info I would be so grateful Thank you

Hi 27cats Sadly the aluminium link still seems to exist - which is a shame as many people apply it to their skin everyday in deodorants and cook with it in saucepans/rice cookers. Also in the water in some countries/areas. Excerpt below from a 2012 article 'Intl Journal of Alzheimers Disease' www.hindawi.com/journals/ijad/2012/914947/

The fundamental similarities between clinical and neuropathological evidence from aged humans with AD and this inducible animal model that develops cognitive deterioration in old age lead to the conclusion that AD is a form of chronic Al neurotoxicity that becomes evident as Al accumulation in the entorhinal cortical cells of origin for the perforant pathway and the hippocampal CA1 field surpasses a neurotoxic threshold, causing communication failure between these brain regions that are pivotal to memory and learning.

In liquid there will be no difference - the Na+ (sodium ion) or H+ (to make the acid) will dissociate in solution leaving the benzoate- ion.

Not a detergent chemist tho.

Re Alzheimers

theconversation.com/does-aluminium-cause-alzheimers-and-breast-cancer-8799

Thanks 27cats that's an interesting read. The study I sent wasn't injecting directly into brains and also talks about aluminium being in many ingested products (via anti caking agents for example). Most articles I've read have stated it is not a primary cause but is part of it. I'll hang on to my natural products and still avoid the ones with aluminium in.

Thank you nextphase Really helpful of you to give me that info.

Hi 27cats This also seems to indicate aluminium is best avoided. (Although I think I might an interpreter to give me the full lowdown on what the report actually says!!) www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23806774

Wow that's technical!
Bit over my head I'm afraid.
I tend to worry about developing Alz disease, (family history) but feel that a balance has to struck between that concern and living as normal and stress free (ha ha) life as possible.
Is sodium benzoate in lots of products?

IIRC, sodium benzoate is a preservative used in soft drinks (and I suppose other stuff too).

Off the top of my (medicinal chemist) head, it doesn't look like the sort of molecule that would cross skin easily, but presumably you were looking for something a bit more scientific than that. If you're particularly concerned about it, can you just avoid it?

Or are you avoiding SLS etc as well as the aluminium, and running out of products you can actually use?!

yes, if my DD who has been very intolerant for years is anything to go by it definitely can, its often found in bubble baths, shampoos, fabric conditioners etc too - DD has to avoid these as much as she does foodstuffs & medicines - she's also had problems with prescribed skin creams because its in them as a preservative too.

We've got used to just avoiding it, but nows shes older I let her decide for herself if she wants to occasionally risk eating/drinking things she shouldn't, but reminding her why we normally avoid & I'm pleased to say that as shes got older, her intolerance to SB is a lot less than it was - a few years ago even a small amount of something that contained it would cause her real problems within 20 minutes, she can now eat the odd thing without any reaction - but seems it accumulative, she will react if she eats more than a bit during the course of the day

Rockinhippy Thank you that's really interesting and really helpful. Fabulous that your DD is showing signs of improving. I wish this ingredient would just be removed and then no one would be exposed to it and there wouldn't be a need for vigilance against this particular nasty. Interesting that you find an accumulation issue. I find an insidious build up is a prob with this and a few other ingredients.

Thanks Boulevard Is that different to the comment that nextphase made about there being no difference once in liquid and so it would be able to cross? LOL no underarm stinks or hairwash issues - thankfully the choice of wonderful products that don't contain anything dodgy is growing all the time (hoo-blooming-rah!). I just noticed though that a product I thought was pretty good has the sodding benzoate in it and I thought it would be good to know a bit more and figure out whether to avoid or whether it doesn't matter.

Without wishing to be too nosey, could I ask if the general nature of the problems it can cause? Stomach upsets, rashes/skin problems, breathing problems? Other? Just interested.

Not nosey at all 27

This link explains it - does say it really is cumulative too

HERE

but with my DD it can be both stomach & skin reaction - her skin would show up as an itchy rash, GP initially said is eczema, but it's Urticaria - though GP later agreed, but said its the same thing, which I don't think it is, but basically an itchy sore rash that can get very nasty if left to build up.

DDs stomach is also affected, but not so quickly & obviously, she does have a very sensitive stomach - once after a course of kids antibiotics she ended up in A&E screaming in pain & she's usually a toughy (chronic pain condition EDS) turned out it had aggravated the lining if her stomach so badly it caused colitis :(

I do also think when she was younger ( she's coming up 11 now) that it affected her behaviour too - I've always given her a natural additive free diet as thanks to a friend who works in alternative medicine, I realised very early on that her severe nappy rash that was made worse by creams, even those prescribed was caused by chemical additives, so she never got any foods that contained anything at all.

I remember picking her up from a friends birthday treat, turned out shed conned them into giving her lemonade - my lovely, calm, goodnatured little girl suddenly turned into devils spawn - she couldn't even walk in a straight line to get home, she circled all the way, round & round, screaming as she went, the effect was pretty drastic to say the least :( - she also complained of feeling ill the next day, her description fit a hangover, all that from one glass of lemonade - never again

& yes sipper I wish ALL these nasty toxins were taken out if food, no need for them at all as plenty of companies manage to produce food without them, it would make life so much easier on the go & save so many parents the heart ache of seeing their DCs ill & not know why for ages, met so many that have been through that :(

Thank you Rockinhippy That's really interesting to read. Great that your DD is becoming more tolerant. Not that you necessarily want to be giving it to her but reassuring to know if she does have it the reaction hopefully won't be so strong. One of my DD's had some things that use to affect her very badly - similar to the drunken effects you described after the lemonade. So upsetting to see and heartbreaking when I realised I was poisoning my child with things that would in most cases be quite innocent. So I sympathise with you and understand the avoidance. Thanks for sharing the sodding benzoids info. Really helpful for my quest of info on whether it is absorbed.

Dr. Janice Joneja states in her research that benzoate causes a release of histamine from the mast cells in your digestive track. Hives are a common symptom of histamine intolerance. Dr. Joneja has done extensive work on histamine intolerance. Anyone with benzoate issues may wish to check out her work. She is in Canada at the University of BC I think and her work is readily available on the Internet. Also, I have read that benzoate is readily absorbed thru the skin.