inquest rules Gareth Colfer-Williams death was complications of measles

[meditrina]

I thought I'd post this here as this poor man's death has been mentioned on a number of threads in this forum.

On 1 July, his inquest found that he died of natural causes, from disease: specifically giant cell pneumonia, a complication of measles.

(The Welsh epidemic is officially over, as there were no new cases in June).

It is weird this fixation on Wakefield.

It would make for an excellent media studies module.

Why is nobody fixated on Professor Walker Smith? Or Professor Murch?

Of course they can't be or the house of cards starts to sway. It has to be about one man. One maverick, one mad doctor experimenting on kids, one crazy schemer with a plan to make his fortune (that one actually makes me laugh out loud and want to hum the Bond theme when I hear that B movie theory trotted out).

Let's ignore the tens of thousands of children whose parents report them becoming ill in a novel way. Let's ignore that parents consistently report that their child reacted badly to their MMR and were never the same again.

I have never seen anyone on here provide an alternative explanation for what is wrong with these children. You know what is not wrong with them despite not have a clue what is wrong with them. Extraordinary!

I no longer take anyone who claims that these children did not react to MMR at all seriously if they do not have an alternative explanation to that of the doctors and parents of the children.

Coincidence, deluded parents, mass hysteria. Wakefield has brainwashed them. Right. How scientific. Bravo. (he has incredible powers that Wakefield - he even manages to brainwash people who have never heard of him! He also managed to brainwash people before they had ever heard of him!!)

CatherinaJVT are you saying that you don't have a blog full of provaccine rhetoric? Are you saying you don't advise people on here to get their kids vaccinated even though you are neither a doctor nor have examined any of the children in question? Didn't I see you on a thread the other day reassuring a mother whose baby had seizures following DTaP vaccination that he could have more vaccines if he had reacted to pertussis he would be fine with HiB? Do you have any idea how potentially dangerous that advice is? Are you a medic? Do you examine any of the children whose parents you blithely reassure and give advice to on here? Does MNHQ know that you do this?

But Jo there certainly are thousands of reports of regression. Beachcomber says tens of thousands, I believe that, there are about five thousand in the UK alone. If you want to ignore them because they aren't actually knocking on your door I suppose nobody can stop you, but I can say that you are ignoring them. I don't know how you can, but you seem to find it easy.

Cw
I suggest you aactually look at the Who data on Japanese vaccination before you attack research you obviously haven't read and relied on some dodgy antivax website for your information.
Also I suggest you read the transcripts of the GMC case to see how business was drummed up to make a legal case against mMr.
Have any of the so called 5000 cases actually been properly documented. There are no record s on Google scholar or on pinned.

Let's ignore the tens of thousands of children whose parents report them becoming ill in a novel way - based on what?

I believe that, there are about five thousand in the UK alone - based on what?

That which is stated without evidence, can be rejected without evidence.

But you know that no one is researching this - everyone is terrified. No one wants to lose their job and their career like Andrew Wakefield. So you can ask for links in the rather smug satisfaction that you know there won't be any, or many, because doctors and researchers have been scared off it. Is that why you keep asking for links? When one or two people say something happened, that can be put down to coincidence, and people can say things like correlation is not causation. But when lots of people say it happened, that's when you start taking notice. You can't keep saying it's coincidence, otherwise there would never be such a thing as, I don't know, antibiotics, or pharmaceutical drugs, do you understand?

Bruffin, you are saying the vaccines are given how far apart in Japan?

There are plenty of cases of regression at about the MMR age: but there's no more in the group which had MMR than in the group which didn't. There has been dozens of further studies looking for a link (see here and it hasn't been found.

Sometimes a group of patients will have similar circumstances due to pure chance, especially if the group is small.

Yes that's the correlation I was talking about before, but there are just too many and the circumstances correlate too closely for me to believe the coincidence line (how many times exactly are we supposed to believe it? an endles number of times). I didn't look at your link but I've read lots of population studies claiming to disprove a link but they aren't very convincing.

I'm starting to think that the entire point of the refusal to allow single measles vaccine is to destroy any viable control group. Tin foil hats at the ready! I can't think of any other reason.

So when you said 5000, you just made it up? That's pretty irresponsible.

People are throwing numbers around whilst apparently not knowing if they're true, where they came from or even why they believe in them.

No I didn't make it up nor did I get it from a "dogdy anti-vaccine website", which I don't look at (but do know about) and which incude for you probably every single parent support network, and everyone who doesn't wholeheartedly back MMR whatever the cost. But why should I be able to link to it - I would have read it in a UK paper. But then I've read masses of stuff that would never be linkable as they're simply not findable again - I've read research by WHO indicating that measles has a protective effect against asthma, I've read research indicating that a rise in CRS is linked to a rise in infection among adult men and not to do with MMR non-take up. None of this I can find again. I wouldn't for a minute imagine that even a link would convince you Jo, as you seem to be very emotional about this.

Tell me Jo, do you ever read case studies of regression after MMR or look at videos of children who've regressed after MMR? How many have you looked at? Would you like to see a lot of them? How many do you think you could read and still say, it's a coincidence, it's a coincidence, it's a coincidence? Ten? A hundred? A thousand? Two thousand? Five thousand? Can you answer these questions?

About 50% of kids in Japan get the rubella shit, all girls, about 30% get mumps vaccine. You'd have real problems finding many children who have had
M, M and R, especially boys.

Gawd, iPhone fail - shot obviously...

Hecwas not a healthy man at all.

Catherine said it, there were very few that had all three mmr let alone had them together. The immunization take up in the period covered by Honda was really low. There has also been further research that confirms Honda. There has also been a further study in Japan that confirms Honda.
There has also been a study in Poland which compares autism rates in mmr, singles and unaccented. There is a higher rate of autism in the unvaccinated and singles than those who had mmr.
Frombonne a leading expert also did studies comparing regression before and after mmr and the rates are the same. There are a number of studies that show much of the gastric problems in autism are actually caused by limited diet.

Why does it matter who had the mumps and rubella vaccine when we're talking about a measles outbreak?

bumbley - Japan had come up - someone said the Japanese kids are getting M, M and R close together. They are not.

Hang on, some time ago I read that a different reading of Japanese data indicates a direct link between vaccines and autistic disorders. I know I looked it up because I was suspicious of Honda (pharmacology) and Rutter (his entire career and reputation depends on no link between vaccines and autism. )

There has been a more up to date paper on the Japanese data which comes to the same conclusion which is not written by Honda.

Can you answer these questions? - Yes, I can.

The analysis needs to be done on the frequency of cases, not the number. You need to either show that regression is more frequent in vaccinated kids, it isn't, or that it peaks following MMR, it doesn't. I could give you the papers, but I assume you'll just take my word for it.

Can you not see that the number who regress following MMR doesn't tell us anything about causation if taken in isolation? You've got to compare it with a null expectation.

There were concerns about vaccinations long before MMR. For example the old Whooping Cough vaccine was linked to rare cases of brain injury.

Second, all this fear about "Autism" being caused by MMR, is distracting people from studying "high functioning" Autism and Asperger's; because I don't think the diagnosis rate of "severe" Autism has risen that much.

Yes, Crumbled, Wakefield wrote that kids in Japan are still getting all three vaccines, but they don't. He lies doesn't do his research a lot.

There is a very simple way to settle this issue.

And it isn't using epidemiology.

Epidemiological studies will never provide an answer. (Which of course begs the question as to why so many have been done and trumpeted as having exonerated the MMR vaccine.)

We need to look at the children. We need to thoroughly examine children whose parents report them as having become ill following vaccination. We need to examine their guts, test them for the presence of atypical measles infection, test their measles titers, etc.

We could also do a primate study. Comparing a vaccinated group with a nonvaccinated group.

But of course these things have been done - and the results and the doctors who found them have been buried, censored, smeared and threatened.

What is extraordinary about this whole sorry affair is that we have massive numbers of people reporting that their children had a reaction to their MMR and then became ill. And the illness that these children developed manifests as autism and looks remarkably like disintegrative psychosis. A known cause of autism is the rubella virus. A known cause of disintegrative psychosis is the measles virus. And these children have inflammation in their guts with symptoms consistent with a viral cause.

And their parents report them getting ill after being exposed to rubella and measles viruses.

And we have no alternative explanation for what is wrong with them.

This is why Wakefield won't go away. This is why after 15 years, losing his career, being struck off, leaving his home country, losing his licence, having his work censored, being smeared in the press and threatened in his home, he is still speaking out and people are listening to him. This is why his family support him in doing these things.

Because he is right.

(BTW Crumbled, perhaps with your 5000 figure you are thinking of the number of children in the Omnibus Autism Proceedings in the US? There were around 2000 children in the UK case and 5000 in the US courts.)

Jo the Hot The analysis needs to be done on the frequency of cases not the number Why do you think I wouldn't know that? Are you saying the frequency of cases has not increased? Excuse me for being incredulous, but this goes back to your comment earlier - I must assume now that it wasn't a throwaway comment. Do you genuinely believe that the leap in autistic disorder incidence from one in 10 or five thousand to one in under a hundred is due to increased diagnosis alone? If so, can you tell me why professionals all decided at once with no trigger and no reason at all to suddenly massively increase the number of children they diagnosed with autistic disorders? It's quite a claim you're making there.