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Original poster

Sorry another MMR/Pre School Booster question???

24 replies

Mingle · 25/01/2004 21:56

DS is due to go to school in September and I have been sent an appointment for his pre-school booster. I have had a new health visitor who is quite scary and difficult to talk to compared to my old one. When I asked her what it was, she said that it was everything, including MMR all over again. When I asked if I could split it, or even, not have the MMR, she threw a worse tantrum than ds can manage. Instead of being informative or supportive, she just ranted on about the availability of inaccurate information and that she has read everything there is to read and the MMR is fine. (But she couldn't remember the name of the Dr who started the scare in the first place!!!) Anyway, she concluded by saying that she believes that there is a type of autism that is triggered by measles, whether it be single or triple vaccine or natural measles, so whatever you do they run the risk of becoming autistic.

Ds has had his first mmr and was fine, dd is due her first in a few months and apparently I am putting her at risk by not giving ds his booster jab.

A friend of a friend is a secretary to someone quite high up in the NHS and she said she wouldn't give the MMR, especially to a boy.

My head is now spinning and my questions are: Is the booster MMR still as risky as the first one? Is immunity testing reliable? Is giving all of these vaccines in one go is going to completely overload his system? Should I accept that my "new" health visitor (and her sidekick) probably have not read as much as they say?

It's alright her saying that the children affected are in the minority, but surely the minority have feelings too?

OP posts:

Original poster

Mingle · 25/01/2004 21:58

Sorry for the long post and mistakes, still feeling a bit emotional after being "told off" by Health visitor

OP posts:

sb34 · 25/01/2004 22:03

Message withdrawn

Hulababy · 25/01/2004 22:06

I am planning on having DD's immunity checked before any booster. But it does have to be done priavtely I think. DD had a reaction to the jab too - nothing like SB's ds - but enough to worry me and have her at the doctors nearly every other day from 2 days after lasting a fortnight. It took me nearly all that time before I managed to find a doctor to admit that it was most likely to be cuased by the jab. Not risking it again if I don't have to.

twiglett · 25/01/2004 22:16

message withdrawn

Stargazer · 25/01/2004 22:37

Hi Mingle

I think your HV was totally unreasonable. Her job is simply to supply you with information and support in a non-judgmental way. Whatever your view with regard to MMR, she totally overreacted and I'd complain about her.

However, I'd probably have my child's immunity status checked before having a booster. But it might be necessary. My DS had his when he started school - all fine. DD had her's last year - also fine.
Hope this helps.

GeorginaA · 26/01/2004 08:21

I personally have a similar gut feeling to your HV's that the link with autism is with measles rather than with the MMR....

HOWEVER (and please note this is a HUUUUUUUUUGE however) I do not believe it is a health visitor's place to offer personal opinion like that where it could be confused with scientific fact and CERTAINLY not in such an agressive manner. As stargazer says it's her job to present all the information to help you make up your own mind.

I also second sb34 in that the issues aren't just about autism - every vaccination has risks (just as the associated illness has risks if you catch it). The risks vary according to individual children too so you can't give a blanket response to everyone.

For the vast majority, MMR is perfectly "safe", however I would have reservations for anyone who had history of autism in the family or adverse reactions to a previously bad reaction to the vaccine. The pros and cons would probably have to be weighed very carefully in those cases.

If you can afford it and are concerned then I think the blood test is something to look into, although bear in mind that sometimes taking blood can be more traumatic for a small child than a jab.

I do think you should complain about your HV. I think she was well out of order.

GeorginaA · 26/01/2004 08:22

"adverse reactions to a previously bad reaction"

Hmm... the portion of my brain that deals with grammar and sentence sense obviously wasn't switched on this morning!! Hope you know what I meant

Original poster

Mingle · 26/01/2004 13:29

Thanks, I feel a bit calmer about it this morning and have found a local doctor who will immunity test so will probably go down that route first. Even though we are skint at the moment, dh agrees with me.

Went to women's clinic for smear this morning and had a whinge to the practice nurse about the health visitor. We are hopefully moving soon, so I won't have to see her again.

Thanks again...

OP posts:

Dinny · 30/01/2004 12:23

Toddlers in my area are being given MMR at 12-18 months, then given a booster THREE MONTHS after that!!!!! Know lots of people who've agreed to it. Anyone else heard of this??

twiglett · 30/01/2004 12:25

message withdrawn

Dinny · 30/01/2004 12:34

Awful, isn't it. I mean, I opted to have single measles only - so it doesn't really affect me - I just wonder if it's happening anywhere else, or just in our borough - and HOW they can get away with it!

LIZS · 30/01/2004 12:38

It is common over here to have mmr at 12 months and then booster at 18 months. dd reacted badly to first but not second.

Dinny · 30/01/2004 12:40

Where are you, Lizs? Why do they do them so close and do they still do a pre-school booster?

LIZS · 30/01/2004 13:37

We're in Switzerland. Can't remember why they do them so close, although they have a scheduled development check up at 18 months, 2 and 3 but no preschool booster. It only changed from Pre-School (actually at 4.5 which is Kindergarten age) to the 18 month age less than 2 years ago and coincides with the other booster dttp etc.

Jimjams · 30/01/2004 15:14

They do 2 close together as giving MMR before 18 months is unreliable.

Anthroposophical doctors have an interesting view. They say that it makes sense to not give MMR/measles vaccination until about age 9. But if your child hasn't caught measles by then to administer it as it is more serious in older children/adults.

Interesting isn't it- so many different options each with thier own pros and cons.

Khara · 30/01/2004 21:47

My ds1 has not had his pre-school booster for MMR, but had the others (tetanus etc). I took the decision based on the advice of my hv who let slip that her two hadn't had the booster either. From what I could gather, she'd read the research and decided that it wasn't necessary. I think that the first jab gives about 92% chance of immunity, so that was good enough for me.

On Monday ds2 finally had his first MMR jab. He's 2 and a quarter. I had put it off and put it off, but finally decided that he would have it. But the nurse said that he shouldn't have his booster for 3 years afterwards. Not because it would be dangerous to, just because it wouldn't have any effect. (That's what she said.) So it surprises me that children are having it after 3 months! It's irrelevant to me, as ds2 won't be having the booster, but it makes you wonder what to believe doesn't it?

Original poster

Mingle · 30/01/2004 21:56

I wish I could just decide what to do and be confident of my decision, but I think I have read far too much on the subject over the last couple of days. Broadband is a bad thing to get!

Ds's appointment is on Wednesday and I think I will just ask for everything else but leave the mmr for a bit.

OP posts:

fairydust · 30/01/2004 22:05

Mingle - my dd was due to have her MMR jab on the 1st april 2003 but was waiting for a hospital appointment as at 13months she was unable to sit.

On the 4th April 2003 She was diagonised with cerebal palsy - now had she had her injection prior to the appointment then they would have put it down that the MMR had caused this.

They wouldn't have looked into the fact that she was already a late developer or that i'd had alot of problems in pergnancey.

Our specialist told us that there is alot of people that put the MMR to blame when 9/10 times the child already has the condition previous but it's not been diagonised.

Hope this helps a little

mieow · 30/01/2004 23:27

FD,what do you mean by the MMR causing CP? DD had her MMR at 12 months, she was diagnosed at 13 months with CP. We have questioned the booster with the consulant and have been told that she has a lower tolerate to infections and she should have the booster. We are concerned about her having the booster as her inital diagnosis was made just after the MMR and she did lose some speech (not had she had much) she is still delayed with her speech.
My sister noticed at 6 months old that DD was floppy and didn't hold her head up and she was delayed anyway. She didn't walk till 26 months.
I am sure that the MMR didn't cause her CP but you have to wonder

nutcracker · 30/01/2004 23:31

My DD's have both had their MMR and now DD@ has had her appointment for her booster. Ds has also had his appointment for his MMR but i'm alot more worried about him having it than i was with DD's. I think it's because you usually hear of more boys having problems following it. He was supposed to have it at the beginning of Jan but i keep putting it off. Am i just being stupid ????

Jimjams · 31/01/2004 06:45

khara it depends on the age. The reason they give a booster after 3 months is if the MMR is given at a very young age (below 18 months) it isn't that likely to have worked. Really the first- pre-18 months jab is a waste of time- I can never quite work out why they would give that one except in exceptional circumstances.

As for who to believe. Do your own reading, do your own research- I wouldn't believe your HV, GP, whoever as they may not have done much reading outside the official dept of health stuff.

mieow found this although that looks like a rather extreme vaccine reaction. Any vaccination can cause brain damage, so I suppose its prossible that for some the MMR could be implicated in CP. Like autism though it doesn't mean that all cp is caused by the MMR (I'm sure you realise that- justs stating it before someobe flames me )

bobthebaby · 31/01/2004 06:56

So if you hang out to 18 months for the 1st MMR is it okay to also wait to have the other jabs done, or should you have the other jabs at the 15 month check and then the MMR later?

Jimjams · 31/01/2004 07:27

Not sure. The MMR used to be given between 15 and 18 months - the later it is given the more likely it is to have worked- especially if a mother has bfed. In the UK they now routinely give it at 13 months but I have no idea why. TBH as the MMR/single jabs are going nowhere near my children I haven't really bothered to look into it in much detail.

I do now that an MMR jab given before 12 months is counted as not having been given in the States (in terms of starting school etc) as the likelihood of lasting immunity is low. Not sure at what age they count it as having been given. I have a suspicion its post 15 months- so 15 months may be OK. As I said though I haven't really paid much attention to this.

Jimjams · 31/01/2004 07:28

Sorry just re-read your question- which other jabs are given? You'r ein NZ aren't you? Do they give hib top ups or something?

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