continuous efforts to withhold critical data on severe adverse reactions and contraindications to vaccinations to both parents and health practitioners

[rosi7]

www.ecomed.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/3-tomljenovic.pdf

Shocked but not, sadly, surprised.

I would file that under "continuous efforts of a researcher to discredit herself as antivaccine" - here is Tomljenovic speaking alongside Andy Wakefield at a plush anti-vaccine conference in Jamaica. The speakers' list reads like a who is who in anti-vaccine activism (quite handy, actually)

www.vaccinesafetyconference.com/speakers.html

... and being antivaccine means discrediting oneself???

yes, being anti-vaccine does.

Catharina, please explain why

and being antivaccine means discrediting oneself?

Yes.

one word, ranting OP - smallpox.

What does it matter who catherina is. She isn't hiding anything although i don't think she is American.
If you are going to post about vaccines you need to get your facts right and be able to back it with legitimate research.

Well, I think she should declare her interest - namely that she runs a pro-vax blog and afaik only comes onto MN to post about vaxes.

Closing down debate is against the spirit of the site.

Rosi7 only posts about vaccines as well.

The only reason debate gets closed down is because people cant back up their evidence.

Surely the OP is backing up her evidence?

Dazzle - I am not American and you will see me post about loads of things, just not here, since this is the vaccination board (I am tempted to say d'uh). If you followed my posts as closely as you are alleging, you'd know that I do post vaccine-critical things and I do take real parents' concerns very seriously. Post and runs of anti-vaccine members on the other hand....

Lets look at what we know. Politicians will lie and do god knows what for money. Life saving drugs are held back from those who need them. Childrens organs were taken without consent. Lots of sex abusers coming out of the woodwork and many well known and in many cases respected people hid the fact something was wrong. Many drugs taken off market because of effects that became apparant years after being used despite tests before being released. At what point do we actually trust professionals? As for internet anyone can post what they want. Even sites listing fraudulent papers could easily slip a link whether true or not. In actual fact we know zero.

OK, sorry if you do post elsewhere - I've just never encountered you. I assumed you were American because you describe yourself on your blog as Science Mom and in the UK mums don't usually use the term "mom".

LilQueenie: "Politicians will lie and do god knows what for money" - do they ????

At least we can be sure that no Lib Dem would ever put his own financial or political interest above the interests of the general populace.

Ooohh vaccination debate, I've not seen one of these for a while...
I just opened a new bag of popcorn too :)

Can I have some Framey, please?

Dazzle - Science Mom is American. I am not Science Mom. There are more nationalities than British and American, btw.

I have no interests to declare. I like evidence-based reasoning, I am allergic against alarmist hogwash and conspiracy theories. Easy, really.

I'm rather allergic to sarcasm and rudeness.

Is your blog a blog run by you and Science Mom, then? It seems very American?

and being antivaccine means discrediting oneself?

Yes.

Sash and Catherina please explain why

Catherina - is withholding data and information then "evidence-based reasoning"?

I do like a scientific approach as well - but for that there is a need for openness and transparency. It is just too simple to brush aside every criticism and request for proper information as conspiracy crazy stuff.

I find it useful to trust my experience and my gut feeling and to sometimes use common sense if those who claim to be scientific in their approach find no better way to defend their truth then by discrediting other people.

Sash and Catherina please explain why

Because it is so stupid. It ignores science. It ignores common sense.

All vaccines have a risk, but so do all foods, you don't know if you have an allergy until you eat something that makes you react. That is not a reason to be anti food.

If you have a reaction to a food it is sensible to avoid it and possibly have your children tested. To be antivax is like telling people to stop eating all food because someone somewhere told you their cousin reacted to peanuts.

Sash, sorry, but how you look at things is just one way of doing it. There are other ways and I find it disrespectful to label them stupid without looking at them in detail.

Your way of dealing with an allergy is to avoid eating the food - an other way would be to avoid the food but at the same time find out the true cause of the allergy and heal it. I do know sufficient real people who were able to heal an allergy - I cannot see any stupidity in their approach.

And your example of the allergy does not quite fit - as not eating something is very different from getting something injected into your body that can have massive adverse effects.

Withholding data is very unscientific - it means you are disrespectful, dishonest and cheating. I find it stupid to believe somebody or some organization or company who does not tell me the truth. If this happened once I am willing to believe that it might have been a mistake but if it happens frequently and intentionally then I simply stop believing them. If you find that stupid - I find that a healthy way to look after myself.