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Zyban - is this a crock or what?

50 replies

expatinscotland · 24/03/2006 18:41

so they had this 'stop smoking' table set up in a shopping centre today. DH stops by. He has tried the patch THREE times - starting at 21mg. Full course. It did FA. He still craved fags like no one's biz and even smoked on the patch.

Gum, lozenges, inhalators. NO effect.

He's gotten rid of most of his 'triggers' b/c he has to go outside - out of the flat, two floors down, no covered area. If he's home alone w/the girls, he has to dress them up and take them w/you.

What he's left with is an intense physical additction. He's smoked rolling baccy for 11 years.

I thought, Zyban might work for him.

This drug is commonly used in the US - where lawsuits abound! - in conjunction w/the patch for smoking cessation.

With good results.

But we go today, and the chap tells us Zyban is an 'anti psychotic' - eh? I was told by a neurosurgeon that it was originally designed as an anti-depressant - and that the NHS will only give it to someone who has a 'medical' reason they need to quit b/c it 'can cause a heart attack'. Um, last I checked, smoking is major cause of coronary artery disease!

WTF?

He said, 'Can you go to group therapy?' Although, he started chuckling, admitted he was wearing a patch, and that all the groups he went to did nothing but made him want to smoke b/c all they talked about was smoking ciggies. He said, 'Yeah, I come away from them, take off hte patch, and smoke.'

Has anyone on here actually gotten to try Zyban w/o having nearly died?

I mean, wouldn't it make sense to try a case like him on Zyban rather than have a person like him wind up w/hypertension or diabetes II (both of which his parents, non-smokers, already have)?

OP posts:
jessicaandrebeccasmummy · 24/03/2006 18:46

i wish i knew hun, but your DH sounds exactly like me.... ive tried everything - including the so called fabbo Allen Carr books..... i may try again on the books, but im at a loss of what to do.

charliecat · 24/03/2006 18:51

get him reading whyquit.com.
or an allen carr book instead.
Regardless of how much nicotine/drugs he has in his system if he has it in his head he wants to smoke he will. He will need to get the illusion of pleasure out of his head.
whyquit.com

educate his brain :)

expatinscotland · 24/03/2006 18:52

he's tried that, too, jarm.

he hates the taste of fags, too.

he's only 28, there's still time before his health is irrevocably damaged, but all they say is 'use the patch and go to counselling'.

he said that all talking about smoking makes him want to do is smoke.

seems like they just don't want to try someone on this when they're still healthy, and it makes zero sense long-term.

OP posts:
evequemartien · 24/03/2006 18:52

THis is from the Summary of product characteristics, a legaly required document that is aggreed with the Medicines control agency

'
Zyban is contraindicated in patients with hypersensitivity to bupropion or any of the excipients.

Zyban is contraindicated in patients with a current seizure disorder or any history of seizures.

Zyban is contraindicated in patients with a known central nervous system (CNS) tumour.

Zyban is contraindicated in patients who, at any time during treatment, are undergoing abrupt withdrawal from alcohol or any medicinal product known to be associated with risk of seizures on withdrawal (in particular benzodiazepines and benzodiazepine-like agents).

Zyban is contraindicated in patients with a current or previous diagnosis of bulimia or anorexia nervosa.

Zyban is contraindicated for use in patients with severe hepatic cirrhosis.

Concomitant use of Zyban and monoamine oxidase inhibitors (MAOIs) is contraindicated. At least 14 days should elapse between discontinuation of irreversible MAOIs and initiation of treatment with Zyban. For reversible MAOIs, a 24 hour period is sufficient.

Zyban is contraindicated in patients with a history of bipolar disorder as it may precipitate a manic episode during the depressed phase of their illness.

Zyban should not be administered to patients being treated with any other medicinal product containing bupropion as the incidence of seizures is dose dependent.

4.4 Special warnings and precautions for use

Seizures

The recommended dose of Zyban must not be exceeded, since bupropion is associated with a dose-related risk of seizure. At doses up to the maximum recommended daily dose (300mg of Zyban daily), the incidence of seizures is approximately 0.1% (1/1,000).

There is an increased risk of seizures occurring with the use of Zyban in the presence of predisposing risk factors which lower the seizure threshold. Zyban must not be used in patients with predisposing risk factors unless there is a compelling clinical justification for which the potential medical benefit of smoking cessation outweighs the potential increased risk of seizure. In these patients, a maximum dose of 150mg daily should be considered for the duration of treatment.

All patients should be assessed for predisposing risk factors, which include:

• concomitant administration of other medicinal productsknown to lower the seizure threshold (e.g., antipsychotics, antidepressants, antimalarials, tramadol, theophylline, systemic steroids, quinolones and sedating antihistamines). For patients prescribed such medicinal products whilst taking Zyban, a maximum dose of150mg daily for the remainder of their treatment should be considered.

• alcohol abuse (see also 4.3 Contraindications)

• history of head trauma

• diabetes treated with hypoglycaemics or insulin

• use of stimulants or anorectic products.

Zyban should be discontinued and not recommenced in patients who experience a seizure while on treatment.

Interactions (see 4.5 Interaction with other medicinal products and other forms of interaction)

Due to pharmacokinetic interactions plasma levels of bupropion or its metabolites may be altered, which may increase the potential for undesirable effects (e.g. dry mouth, insomnia, seizures). Therefore care should be taken when bupropion is given concomitantly with medicinal products which can induce or inhibit the metabolism of bupropion.

Bupropion inhibits metabolism by cytochrome P450 2D6. Caution is advised when medicinal products metabolised by this enzyme are administered concomitantly.

Neuropsychiatry

Zyban is a centrally-acting noradrenaline (norepinephrine)/dopamine reuptake inhibitor and as such the pharmacology resembles that of some antidepressants. Neuropsychiatric reactions have been reported (see 4.8 Undesirable Effects). In particular, psychotic and manic symptomatology have been reported mainly in patients with a known history of psychiatric illness.

Depressed mood may be a symptom of nicotine withdrawal. Depression, rarely including suicidal ideation, has been reported in patients undergoing a smoking cessation attempt. These symptoms have also been reported during Zyban treatment, and generally occurred early during the treatment course. Clinicians should be aware of the possible emergence of significant depressive symptomatology in patients undergoing a smoking cessation attempt, and should advise patients accordingly.

Data in animals suggest a potential for drug abuse. However, studies on abuse liability in humans and extensive clinical experience show that bupropion has low abuse potential.

Hypertension

In clinical practice, hypertension, which in some cases may be severe (see 4.8 Undesirable Effects) and require acute treatment, has been reported in patients receiving bupropion alone and in combination with nicotine replacement therapy. This has been observed in patients with and without pre-existing hypertension. A baseline blood pressure should be obtained at the start of treatment with subsequent monitoring, especially in patients with pre-existing hypertension. Consideration should be given to discontinuation of Zyban if a clinically significant increase in blood pressure is observed.

Limited clinical trial data suggest that higher smoking cessation rates may be achieved by the combination use of Zyban together with Nicotine Transdermal System (NTS). However, a higher rate of treatment-emergent hypertension was noted in the combination therapy group. If combination therapy with a NTS is used, caution must be exercised and weekly monitoring of blood pressure is recommended. Prior to initiation of combination therapy prescribers should consult the prescribing information of the relevant NTS.

4.8 Undesirable effects

The list below provides information on the undesirable effects identified from clinical experience, categorised by incidence and System Organ Class body system. It is important to note that smoking cessation is often associated with nicotine withdrawal symptoms (e.g. agitation, insomnia, tremor, sweating), some of which are also recognised as adverse events associated with Zyban.

Undesirable effects are ranked under headings of frequency using the following convention; very common (>1/10); common (>1/100, 1/1,000, 1/10000,

evequemartien · 24/03/2006 18:53

sorry, that was longer than I thought Blush

expatinscotland · 24/03/2006 18:55

he's tried allan carr and quit.com.

it's no longer pleasurable for him. he's like a junkie w/it.

i just wish they'd give him a try on it! i mean, it's not like he's going to get pregnant.

OP posts:
NomDePlume · 24/03/2006 18:56

My Mum was prescribed Zyban about 18 months ago (been a smoker for 30+ years and tried everything to quit) and it transformed her personality, she was spaced out and really not herself. She stopped taking it and was fine afterwards (although back on the bloody fags).

expatinscotland · 24/03/2006 18:57

Eve
That's almost verbatim what the leaflet that came w/my Lustal pills came with. But they still gave it to me b/c I have PND. But despite the risks, taking Lustral is better than the impact of PND on my health. And the health effects of smoking are so horrible!

OP posts:
NomDePlume · 24/03/2006 18:57

Also like to say that my Mum is/was not on any other type of medication, was/is not depressed and was in good health.

NomDePlume · 24/03/2006 18:59

She said she felt very 'woolly headed on it', like she had very little control of herself.

expatinscotland · 24/03/2006 19:01

On the other hand, I know personally many people in the US who were able to quit w/Zyban, where it's usually used in conjunction w/the patch on people who have tried the patch at least twice and failed.

Can't see why it is not worth a try.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 24/03/2006 19:01

But did she crave fags, NdP?

OP posts:
gomez · 24/03/2006 19:02

Expat - similar to NdP really I know 2 people (although hardly an empirical study I'll grant you) who fought hard to be prescribed Zyban and they both turned into absolute zombies. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

My DH is similar TBH. He does to be fair only smoke around 5 a-day but just can not seem to stop.

NomDePlume · 24/03/2006 19:04

Zombie is exactly the word my Mum used.

expatinscotland · 24/03/2006 19:05

I just counted. I've known TEN people who quit using Zyban - all friends of my parents. NO ONE felt like a zombie.

I cannot understand their reluctance to try it out on someone who cannot seem to stop smoking and has tried everything.

I would touch it, if I were that desperate to quit.

OP posts:
jangly · 24/03/2006 19:07

There is information about it on this website. You can buy it too! though it may not be a good idea without a doc's approval.\link{http://www.inhousepharmacy.co.uk/stop-smoking/zyban.html\here}

gomez · 24/03/2006 19:08

Have to agree to differ then Expat 'cause I wouldn't!

expatinscotland · 24/03/2006 19:09

We're travelling to the US this year. My neurosurgeon pal said he'd be happy to see him, assess him and prescribe it to him if he feels he is a suitable candidate and test results show him to be one.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 24/03/2006 19:10

It's too bad, however.

Honestly, gomez, if you've ever been addicted to something like that, sometimes, you can be willing to just try what you can to get off.

OP posts:
charliecat · 24/03/2006 19:13

whyquit.com expat not quit.com. its good:)

gomez · 24/03/2006 19:19

I am an ex-smoker Expat - I KNOW how hard it is, well I know how hard it was for me.

I despair at DH to get a grip! But I have to admit to thinking that he can't have been serious on the occasions he had tried to stop as he has never lasted longer than 3 or 4 days. I was a 'proper' smoker and I can't understand how he can go hours between cigarettes yet not manage to can it!

expatinscotland · 24/03/2006 19:44

he tried whyquit, charlie.

i was a heavy smoker myself - fags are cheap in the US! but i hadn't smoked as long as DH.

DH's grandfather died of emphysema from smoking.

i honestly think some people have a stronger physical addiction than others, however.

i don't understand how someone can go w/o it for hours and not can it, but i don't think that's being entirely fair, b/c their addiction may be different from mine.

OP posts:
gomez · 25/03/2006 13:58

Aye without a doubt Expat we all feel it and react differently!

I remember when still smoking and hearing about 30-a-day smokers, stopping just like that and thinking 'How'?

I am still lacking in sympathy for DH thou'.

eminencegrise · 25/03/2006 14:36

dh is going down the pub w/his best pal tonight as it's thei last night to smoke in the pub :o.

Flossam · 25/03/2006 14:57

Could you try a different GP EPIS? Am a bit confused as to whether you went to GP's or toe smoking cessation place. Well, whichever, try the other! Grin