Low calcium and very low vitamin D

[landamum]

just wondered if anyone had experience with this. My calcium is slightly below the normal range and my vit d is very low, should be above 75, mine is 23. From my understanding vit d enables calcium to be absorbed so I can see the link. The lab notes suggest that I go on vit d supplement but the GP has put me on a calcium supplement instead (which also contains some vit d). The packet though advises not to take these longer than 2 weeks so am a bit confused. Surely if I take a vit d supplement instead which contains 200% of the RDA of vit d then my calcium will automatically improve too?

The background to this was horrible numbness particularly in my left hand and fatigue and dizziness. This may be due to calcium deficiency. But I'm also on 10mg carbimazole for hyperthyroidism!! Any thoughts really appreciated. Have not felt right since having dc2 last year. Oh to feel normal again :(

No experience of this - but if you can get outside and let the sunlight (hah!) get on your skin for about 20 minutes (no sunscreen - double hah!) then this will help with the vitamin D.

I had hyperthyroidism after DS was born - I left it untreated as wanted to keep breastfeeding - it went back to normal (supposedly). But I never felt right in myself. I kept going back for blood tests, but they always came back as normal range for thyroid. They once came back with low calcium and vit D and I was given the same tablets to take. They made me really constipated though! (soz TMI)

I stopped taking them, as I thought to myself, MOST people in this country if tested for Vit D would come up deficient! I was at home A LOT until DS went to nursery age 3. I started doing more hours at work - just getting out and about and I felt as though everything changed - all the excess weight I was carrying around dropped off too, and I wasn't doing anything differently apart from getting out to work a few days a week.

I agree with BIWI try and get out in the sun (Ha! what's that?) for some vit D, the tablets are a pain.

Good luck with your thyroid.

You need sunlight on your skin - ha! fat chance of that lately, which is probably why you aren't well. Without UVB light on your skin, you can't make D3 efficiently - it's not easy to get D3 from your diet so getting some sun is essential so if you see it peeking through the clouds, get out there and get some!

Without D3 your calcium absorption will be minimal, as you know. Also, D3 is essential for a functioning immune system, and good neurological function (depression is just one side effect of Vit D deficiencies.)

I was diagnosed with severe Vit D deficiencies three years ago - bear in mind that I am a redhead and spend a reasonable amount of time outdoors...and I was still chronically lacking in D3.

I changed my diet to include loads of oily fish, took cod liver oil every day and made sure I went outside every day for an hour, preferably at midday when the sun is at its highest. Six months later I was much better, but still D3 deficient. (I can't take too may calcium supplements as I have a history of bowel problems and they bung me right up - tmi I know.)

Remember we are at a very high latitude here in Northern Europe anyway, which means our sunlight is pretty weak, and our terrible climate means lots of cloud cover which cuts the available amount of UVB down even further. Which is of course why there are more redheads in the UK / Ireland than anywhere else - natural selection to cope with the climate!

This is where I was eighteen months ago, although I am hypOthyroid. Below range calcium and absolutely bottom of range Vitamin D. At that time the NHS were not a lot of help, but I have now raised my Vitamin D to acceptable levels (100+) by taking 5,000 iu gelcaps, at first one a day and now a maintenance dose of one three times a week.

When I found myself in this situation, I had been taking a multivitamin with the RDA of D in it every day for 20+ years and I also spend at least an hour outside every day and tan every summer, so exposure to the sun is not necessarily a bad thing.

You should also bear in mind that you want your calcium in your bones, teeth etc, not floating round in your blood, so if it is only slightly below the normal range, it may not actually be a problem. There is notoriously low compliance with calcium supplements because of the side effects, but if you look after the D, your calcium should take care of itself.

Good levels of D on the other hand are essential. Take a look at these guidelines for what to do about deficiency.

www.imperialendo.com/for-doctors/vitamin-d-guidelines

Although knowledge in the NHS is better than it was say two years ago, a lot of doctors do not understand enough to prescribe the levels you need to get straight, so you may have to take matters into your own hands. Vitamin D is fat soluble, so if you are buying supplements, they need to be gelcaps, not tablets.

D

I was diagnosed with vit d deficiency about 5 yrs ago, but I don't have thyroid problems.
I take calcichew which is a calcium + vit d supplement, prescribed by gp. They really work because there's not much chance of absorbing enough directly from the sun.
I was diagnosed because I was feeling very weak and shaky, I couldn't lift a file onto a high shelf at work and I was only 28! Also, my teeth were melting away, i've got gaps between the four bottom teeth due to lack of calcium and vit d.
I don't mean to scare u, but it is serious and if left untreated can cause brittle bones, which is even more serious.

Thank you everyone. The weather has been truly awful this year and I was pg last year (which depletes vit d) but still don't get why I'm so deficient. I am outside for 1-2 hours each day on the school run/standing chatting! And had a week in the sun in May:).

Rockin - I agree that if I look after the vit D, the calcium should look after itself. Also I haven't been on these calceos things for very long but already they are making me feel nauseous and slightly upset tummy. I was actually feeling pretty good before I started on them. So am going to go against GP advice and take some vit d instead. Why do they need to be gelcaps?

You are deficient because you are ill, not because you don't get enough sun. Your body needs to be able to convert sunlight into vit d but, at least with hypo and I assume hyper also, your body is not able to do this. So you become deficient. It's all very well saying 'get more sun' (ha ha atm) but that isn't your problem

• your problem is turning sun into vit d So you need supplements Now you need to google vitamin d protocol for your nhs district, or if you can't find anything, google gpnotebook, or the sheffield or greater manchester protocols. Sorry, am on mobile and it's a nightmare to link At your levels you need a high dose supplement eg maybe 40 000 a week for 8 weeks or so. Some suggest also taking calcium. This is because your bones don't have enough atm - it has been taken out to use in your blood instead. Your body puts blood calcium levels first. When your vit d levels rise, your body will want to strengthen the bones again, so a handy extra supply of calcium is useful. You should then have calcium levels rechecked after 4 weeks or so and will need to stay on vit d at a low dose for life probably Hth - I've simplified it a bit so it's not strictly scientific lol. Do google the protocols and go back to GP if you are not on a high dose protocol

You are deficient because you are ill, not because you don't get enough sun. Your body needs to be able to convert sunlight into vit d but, at least with hypo and I assume hyper also, your body is not able to do this. So you become deficient. It's all very well saying 'get more sun' (ha ha atm) but that isn't your problem

• your problem is turning sun into vit d So you need supplements Now you need to google vitamin d protocol for your nhs district, or if you can't find anything, google gpnotebook, or the sheffield or greater manchester protocols. Sorry, am on mobile and it's a nightmare to link At your levels you need a high dose supplement eg maybe 40 000 a week for 8 weeks or so. Some suggest also taking calcium. This is because your bones don't have enough atm - it has been taken out to use in your blood instead. Your body puts blood calcium levels first. When your vit d levels rise, your body will want to strengthen the bones again, so a handy extra supply of calcium is useful. You should then have calcium levels rechecked after 4 weeks or so and will need to stay on vit d at a low dose for life probably Hth - I've simplified it a bit so it's not strictly scientific lol. Do google the protocols and go back to GP if you are not on a high dose protocol

www.sth.nhs.uk/clientfiles/File/Sheffield%20Guidance%20on%20Optimising%20Vitamin%20D%20for%20Bone%20Health%20v%204%20July%202011.pdf

Try this for size :)
Sheffield guidance is similar to gpnotebook. Manchester doesn't treat with prescription vit d unless under 25, which you are

www.sth.nhs.uk/clientfiles/File/Sheffield%20Guidance%20on%20Optimising%20Vitamin%20D%20for%20Bone%20Health%20v%204%20July%202011.pdf

Try this for size :)
Sheffield guidance is similar to gpnotebook. Manchester doesn't treat with prescription vit d unless under 25, which you are

Foods for Vit D:
fortified cereals, soya milk, margarine
Calcium:
Tofu, Cereals, Green Leafy veg -kale, spinach, broccoli etc, swede, almonds, soya milk

I am not majorly keen on soya milk but it is apparently full of calcium and vit D. Get drinking some milkshakes!

My friend gave me this chart with all food groups, vits and what they are good for. I have it up in kitchen. Must add she is a veggie - normal milk is good too!

Hope you feel better soon.

Thank you mercibucket- very helpful:). The vit d supplement I bought the other day is only 400iu. So that's only 2800iu a week...and you think I need to be on 40,000 wow!

The GP last week was going to write to the endocrinologist I'm seeing about my thyroid and she mention about me needing to be on a high dose on vitamin d for a while. I'm not due to see the Endo until mid august so I think I'm going to hassle the GP to phone him and get some advice sooner.

Have you got experience of these things? Am I deficient because of my hyperthyroidism? My thyroid levels were only slightly high btw but debilitating symptoms for a few months before diagnosis and symptoms on and off for a few years now that I'm more knowledgeable about it. Thyroid levels now normal though TSH still Out of range very low.

I'm also hypo, not hyper, and was vit d deficient. I was on 40 000 daily for 10 days then 40 000 weekly - bit hardcore though - I wouldn't recommend it. I don't know if hyper is the same but I know with hypo my body couldn't convert sun into useable d3. I spent hours outdoors all summer last year but was still v deficient

Don't supplement at 40 000 by yourself - it needs GP supervision or endo. GPs tend to do it nowadays though. You can supplement 1000 daily with no problem though so maybe increase the dose you take? It can be a weekly dose instead.

Is there a protocol for your area? If not, just print off mine or RockinDs (hello again :) ) and ask GP to prescribe and monitor.

Glad hyper is settling down. Keep an eye out in future for hypo symptoms. Good luck with the vit d. I had a lot of bone pain for a few months as my bones hardened up again but they are fine now

I'm also hypo, not hyper, and was vit d deficient. I was on 40 000 daily for 10 days then 40 000 weekly - bit hardcore though - I wouldn't recommend it. I don't know if hyper is the same but I know with hypo my body couldn't convert sun into useable d3. I spent hours outdoors all summer last year but was still v deficient

Don't supplement at 40 000 by yourself - it needs GP supervision or endo. GPs tend to do it nowadays though. You can supplement 1000 daily with no problem though so maybe increase the dose you take? It can be a weekly dose instead.

Is there a protocol for your area? If not, just print off mine or RockinDs (hello again :) ) and ask GP to prescribe and monitor.

Glad hyper is settling down. Keep an eye out in future for hypo symptoms. Good luck with the vit d. I had a lot of bone pain for a few months as my bones hardened up again but they are fine now

You have my sympothis, not meaning to stealth boast but mine was 7. The vitamin D tablets are making a huge difference. Get back to the GP and ask for the vitamin D tablets.

Sassh that sounds good, glad you're feeling better. What were your symptoms? Hopefully I'll get to the GP tomorrow but have stopped the calcium supplements and just trying the 400iu of vit d until I speak to him.

Don't know if this is relevant but calcium was high 6.88 and vit D was 1.2 have had vit d in my bum (ouch) and now take vit d 1000iu/day. Was told by endocrinologist that pure vit d was without calcium was not available on the NHS so got mine from Holland & Barrett only cost £12.00 for over a year. I have had them for over a month do feel a bit better but not my usual self (grumpy, lethargic, weeing non stop, bone pain and horrendous fatigue) very interested in your post
OK taking Vit d, but where is the sun

Why on earth does your endo think it's not available, 2old2beamum?what a load of crap! Why do they always let us down by knowing naff all??? I'd challenge that - just print off some of the links on here and ask why their prescribing protocols, which are perfectly well known within the NHS and discussed in GP magazines so hardly hidden away, are not somehow available to your endo!
Actually that would make me v sus about my consultant I'm afraid to say. Did you check that list of specialists in hyperparathyroidism? Are they keeping an eye on your calcium? If you increase vit d there is a danger of calcium in blood rising even higher.

That website in the us www.hyperparathyroid.com is good for info on the subject
(Sorry, op, bit of a hijack there)

Why on earth does your endo think it's not available, 2old2beamum?what a load of crap! Why do they always let us down by knowing naff all??? I'd challenge that - just print off some of the links on here and ask why their prescribing protocols, which are perfectly well known within the NHS and discussed in GP magazines so hardly hidden away, are not somehow available to your endo!
Actually that would make me v sus about my consultant I'm afraid to say. Did you check that list of specialists in hyperparathyroidism? Are they keeping an eye on your calcium? If you increase vit d there is a danger of calcium in blood rising even higher.

That website in the us www.hyperparathyroid.com is good for info on the subject
(Sorry, op, bit of a hijack there)

landamum

General tired and feeling 'uhg'. I have other symptoms but they are related to my other ailments and I don't want to confuse things.

very interested in this as I have low serum calcium and probably low vitamin D, but my gp isn't interested in checking that! Thought you might find this article about how to best absorb calcium interesting. www.ehow.com/how_3953_absorb-calcium-supplements.html

If anyone taking calcium has constipation problems they might benefit from taking magnesium too. It's laxative. There seem to be conflicting views on whether you need it to absorb calcium.

I use a magnesium oil spray on achy muscles - you can absorb magnesium thro the skin - epsom bath salts is the old fashioned remedy for aches and pains

I use a magnesium oil spray on achy muscles - you can absorb magnesium thro the skin - epsom bath salts is the old fashioned remedy for aches and pains

Thanks sashh

Mercibucket- 2old2beamum's Endo sounds like mine! I have commented to my GP that I'm not impessed!! Normally consultants are great and I have seen quite a few re myself and the dc over the years but my Endo is rubbish. When I told him about these dizzy/ numb/ fatigue symptoms he told me it must be stress, grr. It is not! Surely he should have said have your calcium, vit d, magnesium checked etc as these are all related problems (I know that now!).

Thanks already will look at that link.

Hi I dont mean to gatecrash this but I have just got back from consultant with DD (11) and they think she may be Vit D deficient. Waiting for blood test results.

Considering getting her a supplement while we wait (again) for (more) blood test results - there wouldnt be any harm in this would there? I am talking over the counter stuff here.....

All previous bloods have come back normal (one shaky underactive thyroid - being repeated) so now they are looking at Vit D.

Symptoms are tired all the time, trouble sleeping, muscle and joint aches - a lot, dry skin, headaches....