MMR!

[youngmummy17]

DS is 18 months, his due his last set of injections, i've been putting them off since his 1st birthday!, it's his first MMR jab and i'm concerned i always hear stuff about it and i just have a bad gut feeling, what was other peoples experiences when ds/dd's had their MMR jabs?

I didn't say majority Catherina. I was just pointing out that some of the cases were in vaccinated children.

ah, ok. We know that 1xMMR is only about 95% effective and even 2xMMR leaves 1 of 200 or so vulnerable.

The figures that actually come back from outbreaks usually show a higher percentage of vaccinated people catching it than that. As I'm sure you are well aware.

actually, for measles, it is rare to have many vaccinated amongst the patients and most vaccinated will only have had one MCV rather than the two recommended.

Depends what you mean by rare I suppose... Also, 1 dose is supposed to be 95% effective.

95% means 5 out of 100 exposed who had been vaccinated with 1 MMR will get measles. That is a lot better than the 99 on 100 unvaccinated who get measles when exposed.

OP- You need to do what you feel is best, please don't let any one preasure you into doing it if you feel its the wrong thing.

I was wary about giving dd2 the MMR, i put it off and the gp kept phoning me and telling me 'there was no risk', i eventually got it done, dd2 had a reaction, we then had the same with the booster, i wanted her tested to see if she needed it, gp refused and again i had phone calls preasuring me into getting the booster, i was worried as dd2 was referred to pead with Autistic traits 2 months after the first MMR (i was worried she would react to the booster), again i felt forced into having it done. The day after the booster dd2 had a bad reaction and we ended up in hospital (she was ok though). Dd2 is now 6 and diagnosed with ASD.

I also have another dd who was clearly autistic before the MMR so make of it what you will.

You may have read my post on the other thread, i am unsure if the MMR caused my dd2's ASD, her sister already had a dx of aspergers so asd in in the family. I'm still being told there is no link with the MMR and Autism.

I think every parent should have the choice of the MMR or single vaccines.

Most children will have no reaction at all to the MMR but i think theres always a risk with having 3 vaccines in one (but thats just my view).

Do what you think is best, the single vaccines cost around £300, i think its important for children to be vaccinated and wouldn't advice anyone not to get there dc's vaccinated.

Theoretically but it doesn't actually look like the vaccine is as effective as is being suggested. Don't forget about under reporting too. How many vaccinated people are being diagnosed with a 'measles-like' virus.

Also, where did you get your figures from for the breakdown of cases? I haven't been able to find them on the HPA website.

I have written to the HPA :o I don't have the exact breakdown yet, but will certainly post once I do.

The typical case break down is like this eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=20194:

A vaccination card was available for 196 of 216 cases (91%). Of these, 157 cases had no record of immunisation with measles-containing vaccine (MCV), including 28 cases below the recommended vaccination age of 11 months. Of 39 cases with a record of MCV immunisation, one dose was documented for 33 cases, two doses for three cases, and for three cases the record was ambiguous. Of the 33 cases with one documented dose, 26 were contacts who had received a combined measles-mumps-rubella vaccine (MMR) as post-exposure prophylaxis, but still developed the disease.

So: of 196 infected with known vaccination status, 183 (93.4%) were unvaccinated at the time of infection (26 of which got post-exposure vaccination), 7 (3%) had been vaccinated once, and 3 (1.5%) were vaccinated twice.

youngmummy17 It is very, very important to have your child vaccinated against measles, mumps and rubella. They are very serious diseases, which can be life-threatening.

The one doctor who tried to claim there was a link between the combined MMR vaccine and autism (and some bowel diseases) has now been discredited and struck off the UK medical register; so he is banned from practising medicine in this country.

The Health Protection Agency says that there is now a very real risk of a large-scale measles epidemic because of people not getting their children vaccinated.

If you want to read a fairly thorough timeline of the scandal, this is a good link:
www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jan/28/mmr-doctor-timeline?INTCMP=SRCH

Smorgs, rubella and mumps are not life threatening diseases in children.

Catherina, do you accept that there's a possibility that some vaccinated people could be diagnosed with 'measles-like' virus rather than measles? That could distort the figures somewhat.

Sorry to go off plan, but what did you make of the Italian ruling?

Bunbaker, this point of yours: "The problem is that the MMR vaccination is given at the same time that autistic traits begin to present themselves" is utter rubbish.the same was said when the mmr was given at 20 months old, then 18 motnhs, then 15 months, and now 12 months - so which is it?

Well only one study ever found a link, that was the one with 12 children, when MMR was given at 20 months. As no other study has found a link the differing dates are irrelevant.

Catherina, so you think that because regression can happen without vaccination, then it must follow that it cannot happen following vaccination?

Not really the point is it? The point is that regression after MMR is not caused by MMR.

If you did a study of children who wore a nappy on the day of MMR and later went on to be diagnosed with autism you would find a very high correlation of nappy = autism.

"Smorgs, rubella and mumps are not life threatening diseases in children."

Rubella is life threatening to an unborn baby though, and mumps carries the risk of testicular infection in adult males and can cause sterility.

Bunbaker The fact that rubella is dangerous for unborn babies is, I am sure, an argument for vaccinating teenage girls and the comment about mumps may well be a reason for vaccinating older boys. I have never seen a justification for mass vaccinating all baby girls and all baby boys against all three diseases.

Hi mince. I thought it was really interesting and I was surprised that it wasn't made more public (or maybe I'm not! :) ). I think it will be very interesting to see what comes of it wrt other people bringing cases to court. I did read somewhere that the vaccine that he reacted to contained the Urabe mumps strain. The MMRI that was discontinued in the UK due to the large numbers of reactions it was causing back in the early 90s contained the urabe strain . I think the vaccine was withdrawn in Italy in 2006. So I suppose it would depend on whether they think it was the mumps component that actually caused the regression. I'm not sure how accurate that all is...must go looking! :)

Bunbaker, as Tab says, rubella being an issue for pregnant women does present a case for a vaccination for teenage girls who are not immune. Smorgs stated that they were 'very serious diseases that can be life threatening' in relation to the importance of the OP having her children vaccinated. From the individual child's point of view, rubella is not a lie threatening disease. Neither is mumps. Also, according to the hpa, there is no firm evidence that mumps causes sterility. It can cause orchitis (swelling of the testicles) in post pubescent males - not children. Again, as Tab said, this presents a case for vaccinating teenage boys who are not immune but there isn't really a justification for vaccinating all baby girls and boys against both.

"Bunbaker The fact that rubella is dangerous for unborn babies is, I am sure, an argument for vaccinating teenage girls and the comment about mumps may well be a reason for vaccinating older boys. I have never seen a justification for mass vaccinating all baby girls and all baby boys against all three diseases."

Because unfortunately there is still a lot of ignorance about the devastating effects that german measles can cause in an unborn baby. It is a mild illness in a child and the parent might not even realise their child has it. So the child might be taken out in public and infect a pregnant woman. I remember when I had it and my mum was going to send me to school. Her friend, who was nurse, threw her hands up in horror and told her that I had to be kept away from other people in case a pregnant woman caught it from me. (This was back in the 1960s, way before the MMR)

bunbaker - why is it a child's responsibility to protect a grown woman?

because we are not living in a bubble isolated from everyone around us. I cannot imagine what the boy must be feeling whose measles killed two babies. With rubella, it is unlikely that the individual would ever know whether it was them who caused someone's CRS, but that doesn't relieve us from the responsibility (and I do feel strongly about this one, since a colleague of my mum has a girl with full blown CRS - it is horrendous!).

"why is it a child's responsibility to protect a grown woman?"

It is the child's parent's responsibility. I know someone who had a termination because she had german measles when she was in her first trimester. It was the one and only time this woman became pregnant.

Sorry, I disagree. A woman is perfectly capable of having her immunity tested as a teenager/young adult. I don't think it makes sense to rely on someone else to protect you. You may be sitting next to someone on the bus/working with someone who has it without realising. Much easier to protect yourself than to expect everyone else to protect you.

Which two babies were killed Catherina? I haven't heard about that. When I google it's just bringing up the babies that were killed by the measles vaccine in India earlier this month.

justthevax.blogspot.co.uk/2009/04/medical-care-for-unvaccinated-children.html

Natalie died last year, Micha is still in a wake coma, but will die from SSPE eventually.

Ok. I've read those ones before. I thought you were still talking about the recent outbreak in the UK.

It is very strange that 2 cases of SSPE(very rare) originated from the same case of measles in the same waiting room. Also not really the boy's fault! Why was he kept in the same waiting room if he had suspected measles?