GALLSTONES

[MrsFrostgetful]

my doctor has suggested i have a bllod test/urine test and ultrasound scan to see if i have gallstones.

about every 5 days i get an attack which results in dark urine- and i'm worried that if the day the blood is taken i am not 'suffering an attack' then both the blood and urine won't reflect the problem???

or is it something that if present will get detected at any time????

also when they do the blood test...will they check my thyroid levels routinely...as they are getting lower- and i also wondered whether gallbladder/thyroid etc could be linked???

If you are having attack that produce dark urine every 5 days I suspect that your blood test would show an abnormality in your liver function test that would indicate a gallbladdr prbel. A scan is more likely to confirm the diagnosis although it is not a 100% accurate way to diagnose, an x ray will be abel to tell if there is gall stones but not exactly where they are.
Gall stones in themselves are not dangerous, however they can become lodged in the bile duct obstucting the flow of bile salts causing pain and jaundice etc. They can also cause infection in the gallbladder which is serious. The definative test for gallstaones is called an ERCP, it is a camera test, but it does run the risk of pancreatitus, I've been referred for a scan too, boohoo, ma poor wee gallbladder!!!!

I'm also waiting for a scan, having had 3 attacks within 4 weeks. Unfortunately, GP had no idea when I'd get confirmation of scan, let alone when it'd take place .... he mumbled something about months !

In the meantime, I am scared to eat for fear of more attacks. I know logically that rich, heavy, fatty food in large quantities is the probable catalyst but am being ultra careful with very low fat stuff and small portions. I hope to God that if anything good comes out of this, it'll be a noticeable weight loss.

thanks for that info- hope u are both ok- had another bad one today- the worst has worn off but i am now feeling bruised and as if i have a stitch- hard breathing in...sound familiar???even walking around aches...feel pathetic really as all these aches seem so 'unrelated'!!!

know what u mean about food- i am anxious about anything i eat now...and after eating i am waiting ...counting the minutes even...to see if i get pain.
i have been on a low fat diet for 9 months and lost 2 stone (i still am overwieght...told need to lose another 2 stone)...however....this gallbladder thing seems to have flared up cos over/since christmas i have been eating chocolate,cream etc...and that for the months i was not eating fat...then my gallbladder would have been less active- and now as i have suddenly been eating fatty food (though not GREASY FRY UPS!!!)...that my gallbladder has had to suddenly get going again???? well...does that make sense???
it's just so annoying as in the past i ate far worse- and even now i have been eating chocolate etc...its no where near the ammount i ate 2 or 3 years ago....i used to binge eat- and way back then i'd be sick from eating too much- but never had the pain i get now after eating as little as a bag of crisps,mars bar and a 'normal' 'full fat' meal (as opposed to a 'carefully planned fat free meal'). When i used to binge i would eat 6 mars bars,4 dougnuts,sevral bags of crisps etc...so what i eat now even when it's not 'low fat' is way better than back then.

i'm 38 now...so wonder if this is an age thing too...in that i could eat all that junk back then...but not now???

Well, I'm 41 ... so maybe it is an age thing ?

My 1st attack happend Xmas Day night and I had no idea what it was, just thought I'd obviously overdone it (but no alcohol or 2nd helpings ). It was only when it happened twice more that I realised there was something going on - and pretty much diagnosed myself by checking my symptoms on the net. I then went into the doctor and circumvented his questions by stating categorically it wasn't acid reflux or IBS (as I get both those too, such a wreck).

Yep - a really really bad stitch is exactly how I'd describe it, and it being hard to get my breath. I felt, after, like I'd been kicked by a horse. 4 days later when the doctor was prodding about I still felt very tender.

You know don't you, that the pain is when a gallstone gets stuck in the valve exiting the gallbladder ? It either passes through, or drops back in eventually (hopefully) so the pain eases after 4-5 hours. You can have them and never know about them, but guess that they "grow" with time and therefore have the potential to get "stuck". I used to have a dreadful diet too when I was younger, but either didn't have stones then, or they were too small to matter.

Since the last attack, I've been more or less living on apples, bananas, vegetable soup,bread (no butter), cereal, skimmed milk (which I always did anyway), fruit juice, chicken, fish and rice. I am truly frightened of encouraging more attacks.

Its not an age thing unfortunately its a mum thing, people who gain and lose weight in short periods of time are more likely to get gallstone. Also if youhave a family history, I am 24. Rubbish isnt it??
Definately more to do with the yo yo weight than the age.

Although they do say 'fair, fat and forty' are the most common factors in Gallstones, at least they said that to me even though I was only 34! Ladies I have to jump in here and say as one who has been through it you have all my sympathies. It is excruciating agony but if there is one positive it is that fear of pain works as a diet aid. Just avoid anything with more than 5% fat. Also if you get another attack I would go to A&E, as they may put you on a waiting list for the op. I mean I had to go to A&E for pain relief when I had my attacks, it was grim, I got morphine injections that although they killed the pain, they gave me really horrible dreams.

I am wondering if DP has gallstones - his symptoms are instant, extreme bloating after food (I wondered if it was a food intolerance at first, but it seems to happen after any food!), pain in the back and just under the ribcage, bad ... ahem ... "gas". He's been like this for months now - he has had kidney stones before, and every time he goes to his GP about it he says it's "kidney irritation syndrome" (which sounds like a fob off to me). He had an ultrasound for kidney stones last year and was clear.

Does it sound at all like gallstones to you?

Spacedonkey, everyone's probably slightly different, but I get my pain between my ribs, where they meet at the top, just under my bust. It's a horrid sharp pain, like a really excrutiating stitch and once it comes on, it lasts up to 5 hours. I feel very very nauseous and each time, have eventually been horrendously sick (till I'm bringing up burning acid) though that doesn't relieve it. I paced up and down all that time crying with the pain, and I had a very noticeable swelling in the area of the pain about 4 inches square if that makes sense ?

I didn't get any gas at all, nor did I feel bloated in the usual sense, if I feel bloated it's usually lower down, round my midriff - though I did get a swollen "lump", as I said.

Pain in the back, especially behind the waist is a classic sign of kidney problems, I've had a few kidney infections before and that's where it hurts.

Chapsmum - I am fair, and I am 40 (41) but my weight hasn't yo-yo'd .... though it has steadily crept up with age. I also don't think I'm "overweight" (12-14) though would love to get down to a 10-12 again. My GP has given me some painkillers and anti-spasmodics (I think) in case of another attack, but he too suggested going to A & E if the pain becomes really unbearable.

any painkillers recommended....read another thread mentioning buscopan...i had that years ago for period pain spasms and it was fantastic....

also i was asked by doc about any family history of gall bladder probs...none that i know of...but my nan (dad's mum) had crohns disease/low thyroid/diabetes...and i have IBS....wonder if i should tell the doc - as my blood appt isn't till 22nd feb...and i wondered if any of that info would make a difference to what they look for in the blood test.

also that 5% fat sounds a great pointer...as i am petrified of just what will trigger it....and feeling scared to even have a cup of tea...

and the A&E bit.....i had 2 attacks yesterday (though could well have been just 1 attack that weaked then started again- but felt it start about 11am...at worst 3pm...started again at 6pm eases off at 10pm and woke me up at 2am - peaked at 3am....doses off eventuallyby 5am- woke at 10am feeling pain free... however walking around i 'feel diffeernt'...even taking a step causes a feeling of bruising...but that is nothing compared to yesterday.

then i drank some pepsi max..flat....i hate fizzy drinks!....and was fine....then at 12 i had a cup od tea...and already i am burping/tasting bile...so i am sure that any fat is triggering me.

i am 5'2 and last april was 13st6lb- which my doctor calculated as 'obese' on the BMI chart...she advised a realistic target to aim for 9-10st...which horrified me as still being bordering on being slightly overweight...as i thought to go from 13 stone to 9 was hell of a step...but to be honest...before i had my boys (eldest age 12)...i was a petite size 8/10...and wighed 7-8st tops....and after 2 kids i was still less than 9 st- size 10/12....so when the doc says 9-10st...she is probably right....

finally...(thank god for Mumsnet!)...am i right in imagining that the reason this at the mo affects me every few days (and not constantly) is that after an attack....it takes a few days for the bile to build up...to a point it irratates....as at the moment i just cannot see why it happens on certain days...as yesterday i ate very little...and what fat i had was well diluted with salad/bread etc....the only way i can get my head round this is that it's a gradual build up....

and sitting here now...able to breath....feeling painfree is fantastic...then i know i have to eat....and feel housbound as as soon as the pain starts i have only 30 mins to get home b4 i am in agony...the 1st time i weas shopping in tesco- and i thought i was having a panic attack- and it just got worse- felt like my whole diaphragm was blowing up and about to burst...then was sick 2 hours later- so assumed was a tummy bug...and took the 3rd episode to prove to me that it was not a bug....

ah well...thanks for listening...its good to read all your descriptions....it reassures me that this is NOT in my mind...as i have been under a psychiatrist for 9 years for various reasons...and everytime i get a physical prob...they try to blame it on my mental health. |And to the point that i often 'wished' for a 'real' physiocal problem...just to be taken seriosly...and now i wish i had never been so stupid.

buscopan is good as it is an antispazmodic, in theory it helps the bile duct to relax and let the stone pass or move on. Some people find it more effective than others.
Co-codamol(30/500)(sopadol/remidine/kapake) /tramadol are also good, tramadol is mildy less addictive than co-codamol, although because of their adictive nature I really I try to avoid them both.
Heat application via hot water bottle is also helpul.

oh cats mother, pregnancy is one of the biggest causes of weight to yo yo. Completely agree about the three f's though mine would have to be:
fairly fit
far from fair and
fastly approaching 25.

It is hugely to do with gecetic predisposure, but certain things like fluctuating weight (inc during pre) can be a trigger factor.

True - hadn't thought of that - doh !!

well...do i have my bloodtest tomorrow???

I've had no symptoms for 9 days...(ever since my last post...and after i bought some buscopan.....)

thing is...it may flare up again...but i feel if i go tomorrow cos it's such a while since i was last ill....will anything show up in the blood???

Am i best to wait to see if it comes again???

or couls i eat a bit more fatty stuff today... so that if that is causing the prob...it will show something in my blood...as since the last episode i've eaten very little fat...and though i am glad to not have pain...if it means that the next time i eat the wrong food it flares up..then i'd rather eat deliberately badly today (suffer a day of pain) if that ensures it picks up in my bloodtest...

...and that is assuming this really was a gallbladder prob...it's amazing how quickly i've gone on to feel like this was all in my mind and never happened... yet i know how terrible i felt....

so...if it is gallstones etc.... would 'anything' still be detected even though i have been fine for 9 days???? I've got to do a urine sample too as my wee was very dark....now it seems normal???

I would have the tests.
I had my gall bladder removed in 2001.The attacks do come back and at least if your doctor/hospital are aware that you have had tests etc then they can maybe give you quicker treatment. A scan will show if you have them and if there are any in the ducts.
The best thing is to have your gall bladder removed most people then don't get further attacks.

I had my Gallbladder removed in 2002. A stone escaped prior to the op that was only found after the op when I turned yellow (huge pain). I ate boiled rice, fish and steamed veg - prevented attacks till stone passed. They were going to operate but I was lucky and it fell into my tum. 3 weeks ago I spent a week in hospital with a new suspected stone (also in the bile duct). This one wont show up on ultra sound so I have to go back in for an endoscope to find it. No yellowness this time. The Hospital gave me Tramadol and Oramorph to kill the pain. Mrs F they can detect a stone even if you have no pain. The liver function tests show everything so don`t inflict pain on yourself.

An ultrasound will show up any stones if there are any in the gall bladder itself. If any have escaped and are in the duct the only way to check for that is an ercp. Your best way to avoid any attacks are to eat very low fat/no fat foods - not even avacado etc etc until a course of action is decided for you.

I had my gallbladder out in April 2004 after 6 months of sporadic back and tummy cramps that would mostly wake me in the night. I thought it was lack of tummy exercices after birth of 3rd child. Only when I turned yellow did I go to hospital. Plenty of drama etc followed with a week in hospital on two drips and the threat of an ercp. Ended up with op four weeks later. No problems ever since. Some people can continue to have the attacks though even after the gall bladder is removed.

Wow, its so reassuring to hear people have hed the same probs with gall stones. i've had 6 attackes in the last 4 weeks and am waiting for a scan. my live function tests indicate some sort of problem but am not sure what - test reuslts came back as describing liver function as "deranged" - anyone had this - at first thought it was quite funny, now just stressed by it...

doc seems to think that a stone is stuck but as i haven't had an attack for a week now (like many am also petrified of eating anything) will it still be stuck and will this then lessen cnances of anyone doing anything about it? ball ache cos have 13 week old dd who am still breasfeeding...

I Have had my gallbladder removed
AT age 43 year age
I didn,t know i had 120 gall stone inside i did,nt have any pain at all until had a scan
only reason went hospital was i went doctor for tablet review.
But before went hospital for my operation
I went Afrcia for three weeks when i came back
I WAS IN MUSICAL CALL WILD FIRE BY RODGER JONES
Then on 16th nov 2003 I went hospital for my operation. And i did this all in the same morth.
I did know go to hospital in same morth.
But their was patient cancel their appointment at last min. so i got early then thought i would get in
AND I WAS GOING KEY HOLE SURGERY AND HAD MY At the WEEKEND.
It tuck me a while get over.
Bit i am glad i had it or would of trap wind and acid rest life.
I had germ what kill me.

If you've got gall stones you need to get them seen to! I won't give all the gory details but suffice to say that I tried to get by and didn't make much fuss after needing to call out on call GP twice and having morphine injections. My own GP suggested that the attacks may have been isolated events (twice in fortnight) and that the ultrasound which was recommended by the on call was unneccesary. I ended up in a right ole state and due to very complicated complications in ICU then in hospital for 4 months!! My case is very rare but it's made me realise that if your body really complains about something then you ought to listen.

I'm not trying to scare anyone cos my case was incredibly rare but just saying take note!

sunnyside - what a complete nightmare...

Yep but here to tell the tale eh?! Incidentally back to fighting fit now!

Yep but here to tell the tale eh?! Incidentally back to fighting fit now!

oops

sorry- me again.

bloodtestes were 'normal'...liver fine...found out yesterday.

however today i have had constant pain-below right ribs-round to back/shoulders...hard to breath in- shallow breaths- exactly as i had last month-

so what now.... if it is gallstones...would bloods still test normal- or does 'normal blood result" mean no gllstones???

i took a buscopan tab at 2 and it eased till 5- have taken another at 6 and it's only just easing now.

i was not in pain yesterday- but felt'off'- so went to bed at 8. then this morning felt the rib pain.

so...i am still waiting for a ultrasound....and if i hurt tomorrow will go to the doctor...

just want to know if any of you have had normal blood tests and still had gallstones.

i have been very down this week so ate alot over the past 3 days...so am sure this pain is self inflicted...but feel i am in a viscious circle- i feel miserable so i eat- which causes pain- which makes me miserable.....

Frostgetful...I only know that dodgey liver function results indicate probability of gall stones which is what has happened to me. not sure if they are normal whether it still may mean you have them. i have been waiting for an urgent scan now for nearly 2 weeks and have found out that the appointment is in 2 weeks - think urgent obviously has 2 meanings...re the food thing - it is completely naff the whole fat free thing and i completely understand the how miserable you feel - eating cos you feel miserable then that gives you pain - so what do you do...eat again....if it helps at all i really do know exaactly what you are going through and its just no fun at all....keep going x