Frozen shoulder - what works ?

[gingeroots]

Have had one a couple of years ago ,now the other one is revving up .
I had little positive in way of treatmemt last time - physio recommended but waited so long for initial appointment only to be told that the weekly sessions I needed weren't available !
It was a physio attached to GP practice ,not hospital .

What has worked for other people ,apart from anti-inflams and time ... ?

Ginger I will let you know how I get on at school of osteopathy, my appointment is on friday.

Last night the pain was very bad in the base of my neck so I put on my newly aquired tens macine.

It was brilliant I had more sleep last night than I have had for weeks. I got it in the week and tried it once but only on very low (as am a coward) and it did nothing.

I think the trick is to put it up and up till you don't feel the pain anly the tens. Then i left it on for about 40 mins.

I also use a heat pack a grain filled hotwater bottle that goes in the microwave and that really helps cant stand the ice pack though.

That's interesting cat about the TENS machine .

I've been googling ,probably not a good idea .

It seems to me that shoulder problems can be caused by a range of problems and I really don't know how an accurate diagnosis is reached.
But I think one needs to be reached as it informs the treatment .

My pain is definitely worse since the treatment on Thursday ,so I wonder if the treatment ( or timing of it ) was correct .

Warmth helping more than ice .

Well just reporting back from osteopath session on Friday at he London school of osteopathy.

After a very long consultation it was decided it is probably a frozen shoulder or calcified tendonitis. The treatment for both conditions is the same.

Apparently very common in people who have autoimmune disease thyroid problems.

The treatment was quite painful at the time but during the evening and all night it was really really painful. In fact it still hurts now.

They have recommended one treatment every week for 3 weeks then review to see if one every 2-3 weeks would be ok.

I am going to see how it goes because if it is going to cause this much pain I don't think I will be able to take it.

I have to say that I tried most things, physiotherapy, osteopathy, acupuncture and nothing really worked. They say it takes a year to develop, is frozen for a year and takes a year to disappear. This was true for me. The only thing I found that did help a bit was steroid injections into the joint .

oh dear cat - that sounds a bit like my first session .
I told ostepath that it had seemed worse and she did more general stuff and less intensive work on the shoulder .
She did some dry needling ( no idea ,something to do with electrical pulses ? ) to try and relax the muscles . It did seem more relaxed for a day .

And she told me to ice the shoulder ,including the front .
Which does seem to help ( increases the blood flow ,attempt to reduce inflamation ) even tho personally my instinct is more towards warmth .
She said if icing painful ,to alternate ice and heat but to finish on ice .

but as people say ...does any of it help ? I've even read that exercising while it's in the inflamed stage can be unhelpful .
But I've also read that the exercise while not hastening the course of the healing ,is important to retain mobilty .
There must be studies ,surely .

And ...how can a diagnosis of what it is be made ? Does it have to involve scan/xrays ?

I had frozen shoulder years ago, but never got proper treatment for it. I tried doing all the exercises (my dad had it as well, so I asked him for them) they helped a bit but not much. The only thing that got rid of it was stopping my then job, which involved sitting at a computer typing for at least 10 hours a day.

I should say that I saw an osteopath last year for a problem with my hip/back, and there is a bit of a transitional period at first where the pain doesn't go away. However, after four visits, he had basically gotten rid of a constant back pain I'd had for years and years. I would stick it out a bit if you can, unless you think maybe the person you're seeing is way off base.

My osteopath also recommended lots of diet changes and vitamin supplements (like omega 3 and magnesium).

How's it going cat and other frozen shoulder sufferers ?

Mine hurts - of course .

Not too bad when the osetopath is gentle ,she wasn't last time .

The dry needles help ,I can feel the muscles are more relaxed afterwards .

GP thinks ( on basis of putting both hands on my shoulders and squeezing ) that it's nothing to do with my shoulders .
Says it's back muscles in spasm . Has prescribed diazipam and more painkillers .

Icing seems to help .

Ho hum ....I do wonder if there's much point paying for osteopath ,maybe I should just shoulder on .

Can't you see an NHS physio ? Mine is doing acupuncture and ultrasound on my various joints, plus massage and manipulation. Is having an effect

Hi Ginger

I had my second osteopathy session on Friday... it is just starting to settle from the trauma of it.

I am also having some manipulation on my neck and base of my skull this definatley helps with the neck and headaches.

I have started taking magnesium as well as multivit which I usually take.

The Tens is my best friend at the moment, we meet every night about this time!

Like you Ginger I just shoulder on waiting for a miracle!

I use heat when mine plays up....shower hot as I can bear, heat packs and those charcoal sticky patch things can be helpful, if you have someone to fix them on for you. I would sooner die than apply an ice pack anywhere, i just cannot bear to be cold.

I only really shifted mine after about six months of physio, and many many handfuls of diclofenac and paracetamol I see it coming these days and do not soldier on...I start early with the meds and really work on posture and such.
To be fair I think having heavy babies to haul in and out of cars never helped, and a slight change in job also helped.

Also had no idea about the auto immune/thyroid link....off to Dr Google for a nosey!

CMOT - GP doesn't think I need physio because according to her it's "not your shoulder ,it's just that your back muscles are in spasm " .

I went privately to see oestopath because when I had shoulder problems before ( GP thought that was frozen shoulder ) I had to wait over 3 months for first appt and then they could only offer monthly appts .

cat Also had no idea about the auto immune/thyroid link - was that mentioned by someone ? Is there a link ?

When I had a frozen shoulder a couple of years ago I was referred to a physiotherapist. While I was at it I decided to restart Alexander technique which I used to do years ago. I think the combination worked! Took a while though.

Yes I've started the Alexander technique because I just know that my posture doesn't help .
I've only had one session ...have been trying to practice the supine position as recommended .
But this seems to need a hard surface ,like the floor ,and I'm damned if I can master getting down and up from the floor with using only one arm !
I'm eyeing up the kitchen table ( easier access fron chair ) but too inhibited to try it out with family around ( as they are at moment ) .

The table would be horribly hard unless you stick a blanket or two on top! Can you sort of roll to the floor and get someone to help you position the books under your head and also help you get back up? It's worth doing it, although at first you feel a bit daft...

I've got a thickish camping mat I put under me ..when I made it to the floor !

I'm too ..adjective fail ...to ask anyone to help me .

Will try table I think .

It answer to the question re autoimmune/thyroid issues. Both the pysio and the ostepath said it is very common in people particularly women who are hypothyroid (under active thyroid). I have issues with my thyroid and take 150mg of thyroxine daily.
I have also had autoimmune hepatitis, very painful and a 5 day hospital stay.

A simple blood test can identify thyroid problems.

I was interested to read that abot The Alexander technique and will have a look at classes in my area.

Ginger as regards exercise I have been advised that GENTLE exercise that does not cause any pain is ok, as it is a fine line between keeping mobility in shoulder and making it worse.

cat sorry to hear about the hospital admission ...never one thing is it !

I'm doing the Alexander technique because I'm aware how badly I hold myself ,in particular hunching my shoulders ,the way I hold my head and how that affects my neck .
( Though some of that is my varifocals and they're too b.expensive to change ) .
But the problem with the AT is that I think it's very individualised and one to one and = expensive ....

Yes I'm just doing the pendelum exercise ,very gently .
And taking all the b.painkillers all the time because I'm thinking if it doesn't hurt so much ,I'll be less protective of it and use it more .

Fed up tho ,need to get out and garden and attend to my messy ,dirty ,overflowing flat ....
makes me depressed and hunch my shoulders even more !

fwiw, when I went to the GP, I described my symptoms, he got me to move my shoulder around a bit, I winced a lot in places, and he just said "what have you done" and grinned.I know him and he knows me.I said "nothing that I am aware of".He asked if I had overstretched it or hurt it in any way. I said no. He said there and then, that I had frozen shoulder. I was sent to physio. Had 10 sessions.Met 1 more person there over the weeks, who also had frozen shoulder. I asked him how he had it. He said "I fell off a ladder".
Apparently half the people know how they got it, and the other half do not have a clue.

Yup - sometimes no discernable reason .
What helped yours get better ?

Osteopath thinks its probably tendonitis ,I don't care really what it is .
I just wish it would stop hurting .
How's every one else doing ?

Just physio, [I did the exercises as often as told] and heat .sat by the fire, had a hot water bottle on it or near it at night, every time it felt a bit colder, I administered heat in some way.It gradually got better and better. Took a few months.My arm, when I first went to the doctor was very frozen.Looking back, it had come on over several months gradually, and it took me those few months to realise I had a big problem.
The only thing I am left with, a few years later, is when I put my hands behind my back upward, my left hand can go about 2 inches up further than the rigth. there again, perhaps it was always like that, and I never noticed!

Both me and my DH have had shoulder problems over the last few years. He had a frozen shoulder and then I got similar symptoms. Had physio, saw a specialist who said it would get better in time! Was in intense pain when using arm up high. Eventually had to change GP and new Dr. sent me to a shoulder specialist who diagnosed Arthritis and impingement in the shoulder (it would never have improved in time......). I had an operation 8 weeks ago (ASAD and excision of the distal clavicle). For the first time in 2 years I can see an improvement. The specialist asked 'why did you wait so long?'!!! as if i had purposely spent the last 2 years in extreme pain. Anyway I now have extreme muscle wastage and a very thin tendon in the affected shoulder which will take up to a year to rehabilitate. My advice would be to press to see an expert in shoulders and not be fobbed off by going down any other routes. I used a TENS machine when pain was really bad and also Biofreeze (which comes in a spray or roll-on) and gives a tingly feeling which dissipates the pain (it was really useful when nothing else seemed to work).

Wow, DazR. Glad you are now getting the help you need. Thats the trouble with sites like these, we dont know all the medical facts, and we are not medical experts. I think the trouble is , with this thread, is the op put the title as "frozen shoulder - what works", when further down she had written that she had not gone to the gp.
I once had a medical book, that a relative I had to through out as I started self diagnosing various things.

I have frozen shoulder, that flares up at different times during my life. It never really goes, but the pain is less iyswim. I find that drinking 2-3 litres of water per day really REALLY helps with the pain, it seems to free up the muscles and my range of movement is much greater, i don't have the hunched shoulder look that normally goes with the pain.

A friend of my family recommended upping my water incease after i was first diagnosed (aged 14) after she sucessfully managed a similar complaint.

i have no idea how much water you drink OP, I make sure I drink the 2-3litres, plus an extra glass before any cup of coffee/bottle of coke just for good measure but it might be worth a try?

it did take a week or so before the muscles seemed to relax a bit though...

Shoulders are so complicated - I still don't really know my diagnosis .

Tho if one were to assume that a visit to the Gp could provide one ...

Since starting the thread I have been to GP who placed hands momentarily on my shoulders and pronounced that the problem was not in my shoulder but muscle spasm in my back .

Which she said was making me hunch my shoulders .

For which diazipam was prescribed .

Which does indeed ease the spasms that I do get in my back .
But doesn't relieve the pain in my shoulder and arm which is constant and excruciating when moved in a certain way .

Anyway the osteopath ( who at least has the luxury ,at the expense of my purse to do more than spend a second laying a hand on my shoulder ) says she will refer me for an xray/scan .
She thinks it's tendonitis . And the pain makes me hunch my shoulders which in turn causes back pain .

I think it hurts ,hurts ,hurts .
Apart from the painkillers and diazipam I find icing it helps .
And I'm doing passive exercises as advised and to retain my muscles and movement .
I drink loads of fluid . Always have done .