Getting DCs vaccinated against Chicken Pox?

[bringmesunshine2009]

DSs 2 and 1 missed the last circuit of the pox. I am back at work and figure a vaccination is a helluva a lot cheaper than days off work, plus I am happy to spare them from being grumpy and itchy. Particularly since DH hasn't had it before, I am struggling to see any great arguments for not doing it.

The main googleable disadvantage seems to be the more people are vaccinated against CP the less exposure others have, increasing their chance of shingles? Which seems a bit of a stretch, since DSs are a wee drop in the population ocean.

So AIBU, if so why? Unless I hear amazing arguments to the contrary I am calling the vaccination people ASAP.

I'm against vaccinations for many many reasons, probably too long to go into on mn.

DD (7 mths) who isn't vaccinated recently had chickenpox quite severely. Rested for a week and a half and was kept indoors for a while and recovered brilliantly from it. DS also had it before her so that's why she caught it off him.

Just make sure you know what these things are grown on and how much the pharmeceutical companies make in billions each year from it. x

My dc had chickenpox with no particular problems; I'm glad they've now got lifelong immunity having had the real disease. I'd hate the uncertainty of dd going into pregnancy not knowing if she could get chickenpox while pregnant because a vaccine had worn off. Presumably unless you test the day before she gets pregnant there would be no way of knowing if the vax is still working - or indeed if she's one of the ones for whom it never "took"?

Does anyone know why the government pulled out of putting the vaccine onto the childhood vaccination schedule?

I think it would be very interesting to know. They certainly kept quiet about it. I can't believe it would be on cost grounds, because to add it would surely give quite a boost to the UK economy?

Disease-acquired immunity is not necessarily life-long either and tests for varicella immunity should be part of the pre-conception work up (also including rubella, toxoplasmosis) anyway.

I was trying to find my son's pictures smiley little ladybug with a couple of hundreds of pox or so, but that went two computers ago, I think. However, there is no telling whether your child is going to fall into the "nuisance" or "chicken pox from hell" category. I don't see why this is one one should want to risk (and I would not even use death as an example).

Catherina, the vast majority of people who have CP are immune for life. The chances of very severe complications from CP that would put it into the 'CP from hell' category are very rare and death from CP is even rarer still.

When did people stop having faith in their own immune system? Every time a new vaccine comes out it just lessens more and I honestly think some people have forgotten that we even have an immune system that has managed to get the human race this far!

Also, there's no way of knowing if your child is going to react badly to the vaccine, whether it will work and how long protection from it will definitely last. There are risks either way.

Vaccine trumps disease in complication rate, 2x protection is quite decent and approaches disease acquired immunity, which holds in about 90% of all people (but that

oh - DS had wild chicken pox twice - his second infection was about as "dramatic" (handful of pox, crusting over over the weekend) as the couple of vaccine breakthroughs I have seen in (1x) vaccinated kids of US American friends.

Catherina, we'll just have to agree to disagree in this one. I don't think there is a real need for this vaccine at all. I think some people are making a lot of money by scaring parents into thinking CP is much rockier than it is or just playing the 'inconvenience' card. Have a read on some US parenting forums to see the fear of CP that has been created in order to sell a vaccine. Madness.

Riskier* not rockier.

Bumbleymummy - do you take the same approach to measles?

Just to put in my tuppenceworth. I don't need to read any forums about 'madness' in the US as I'm in the US. There is no fear of CP among the people I meet. Just a recognition that a usually, but not always, mild and unpleasant and very occasionally fatal disease can be prevented by a safe and effective vaccine. Anyway, it's a good thing that as a result of vaccines we no longer need to fear infectious diseases like in the past so that even the health risk posed by CP becomes unacceptable.

Vaccines don't 'lessen' the immune system. My children, by having the CP vaccine, have a BETTER immune system and are less likely to get a secondary infection as a result of having had CP. Being ILL weakens your immune system, rather than being vaccinated.

Why do I need 'faith' in my immune system??? Of course it works MOST of the time and with CP, I know my children's immune system will (probably) eventually fight off the virus (although with a risk, albeit small, of severe complications and death). It's not a question of faith. Does this faith in the immune system extend to antibiotics (perhaps an indication of immune system failure??)

In short, I'd do it if I were you OP. The CP vaccine is showing signs of being very safe (certainly more than CP!) and effective with long lasting immunity. In the worst case, once immunity starts to wear off (and you can estimate how long by looking at the countries which pioneered the CP vaccine - so far so good though!), you can get a booster. There's been no sign of shifting to older ages in countries with the vaccine.

Also the benefit of being in the UK is that your dc will be exposed to natural boosters all the time when CP does the rounds at their school which should increase the long term effectiveness.

There is a vaccine for shingles available so I don't think you need to be concerned about the elderly, drop in the ocean or not. I understood one of the reasons the NHS is holding off with the CP vaccine is a) cost because it needs to be rolled out together witih the shingles vaccine for the elderly and b) because they want to get the numbers up for the really bad diseases like measles before starting another vaccine campaign. I think that with CP, if you don't get high take-up but enough to dent the virus spreading you'll get CP shifting to older ages which will lead to more complicated cases even if the numbers of cases dropped so I think they want to be more certain that when they roll it out, that there will be higher up take than currently predicted. Personally, I wouldn't want to be held hostage to this kind of thinking and I did seek out the CP vaccine when we lived in the UK.

Thank you Elaine, ITA.

Elaine, I"m sure there are some people in the US who do not fear CP but I can assure you (as someone who used to live in the US and who has many friends and family over there) that many people do. I found an incredible difference in people's opinions about CP between reading US forums and reading UK ones.

"My children, by having the CP vaccine, have a BETTER immune system and are less likely to get a secondary infection as a result of having had CP. Being ILL weakens your immune system, rather than being vaccinated. "

I don't really understand your logic here about what strengthens and/or weakens your immune system. I would consider getting sick and learning how to fight off an illness as making my immune system stronger.

As I said to Catherine, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I know plenty of doctors who think that mass CP vaccination is a ridiculous idea but I'm sure that will no doubt change if it gets brought in over here and they have to promote it to patients.

Just out of curiosity, did you vaccinate your children against HepB and Rotavirus as well?

Americans tend to be more aggressive in their treatment of disease, of course youll get differences between uk and us forums, doesn't mean they're irrationally quaking at the thought of cp (as opposed to the more stoic British?).

It's not my logic about strengthening the immune system, it's science. Your immune system is weakened when you are ill, that's why you are vulnerable to secondary infections. I would consider NOT getting sick and learning how to fight off an illness as making my immune system stronger. What magic performs this trick? Yep, immunization.

I guess many doctors think mass cp vaccination is a bad idea because they're thinking 'shit, look at where we are with the mmr and now we need to add another vaccine with all the misinformation circulating in the crankosphere'. Doesn't mean it's not good for MY child!

Funny you asking about rotavirus and hep b. they're the ones I felt unsure about out of all the vax in terms of risk vs benefits. Did hep b and not rotavirus for eldest and both for youngest. Happy to chat another time about those ones, don't want to derail this thread from cp.

Elaine, I am not trying to be offensive here and suggest that Americans are hysterical and/or irrational people in general (why would I do that?) I'm just pointing out that having a vaccine available does influence people's perception of the disease itself. 'oh if we vaccinate against it then it must be serious. You see this wrt rubella in the UK too.

I'm still not sure what you are saying about strengthening/weakening your immune system. Yes, certain diseases may temporarily suppress your immune system allowing secondary infections to occur. So can certain lifestyle choices. Are you trying to say that the process of making antibodies against a disease somehow suppresses your immune system? That doesn't really make sense.

Wrt the doctors' opinion of the CP vaccine. The ones I know we're more thinking of it in a 'what is the point of that?' way.

I just picked up on something that you said earlier about how long vaccines last based on averages from other countries. Getting vague ideas about when a booster is due may be fine in some cases but there is no way of knowing if you will be at the lower end of the scale and I wouldn't feel too comfortable not knowing my immunity status to certain diseases while I was pregnant.

I'm sure you're not trying to be offensive but there is an element of 'Ha ha ha, look at them, running scared over chickenpox, how silly'. Completely misplaced imo.

I'm absolutely not saying that making antibodies suppresses your immune system, I'm saying that having disease and being ill weakens your immune system thus making you susceptible further infection. And this is why vaccines do not weaken your immune system - you make the antibodies but don't get ill. Why is that a bad thing?

This BBC report outlines what leading doctors think and we don't have the CP vaccine
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8557236.stm

To quote Professor Adam Finn, a consultant in paediatric infectious disease
"The fact is parents who should be able to protect their child against chickenpox, an entirely preventable, unpleasant disease, are being held hostage by a small minority."

And Dr. David Elliman, an immunization expert
"The chickenpox vaccine is definitely desirable, and I think it it will happen, but unfortunately I don't think we are ready for the debate yet - not until we get MMR rates back where they need to be. We need to win that one first."

I guess different people have different opinions about it - including doctors.

Again, I just want to clarify what you mean by 'being ill weakens your immune system'. What exactly are you saying is weaker? I know that certain diseases, like measles, can weaken your immune system but are you also talking about colds and flu etc?

That should be, that measles temporarily weakens your immune system.

Just to add it's given as standard here in a joint MMRV vaccination in Germany so all mine have had it. There seems to be no question here of why you wouldn't prevent something given the chance.

The German system is very prevention driven as opposed to treatment/reaction based.

dd1 came down with chicken pox while we were in America.

I have ot agree with bumbley here - lots of worried looks when I told the receptionist what it was (we only went to the doctor as we needed a 'safe to fly' letter for the following week)

she was very nearly admitted (eh? why? she was fine - obv a bit miserable, but a reasonably moderate case of straitforward chicken pox), and put in isolation.

the doctor had no idea what it was when we saw her, and had no idea of any exclusion period, or what to look for complications wise etc. I was surprised by that, tbh - how long has the vaccine been standard for? she was not a particularly young doctor, so I would have thought she would have known a bit about it.

mind you, on that note, shocking (lack of) knowledge of mumps from our gp when I took dd2 along - h was a good 20 years older than me, so in his 50s. can't believe what he didn't know about it - surely would have seen it time and again over his lifetime?

Pixie or anyone else in Surrey, where did you get your cp jabs from?

I have been looking at the Syon Clinic in Brentford but any recommendations would be great. Thanks.

catandthecream try Surrey GP in Guildford.
If I am not too late.

Hi, I know this post is slightly old but I was just wondering if any one had any clinic recommendations in London or Kent? Really wanting to get my little boy vaccinated ASAP as my Nephew has Leukemia, if he catches CP it could be fatal and at the moment we are keeping our distance!

Thanks x

www.doctortoday.co.uk/chickenpox.htm
www.yourexcellenthealth.co.uk/vaccines/vaccineprices/tabid/78/Default.aspx
www.childrensimmunisation.com/chickenpox/

I have not used those, but it should be easy to get in London - have you asked your GP whether they would do it since you want to protect your nephew?

All the best to you and of course to him! Let us know which clinic worked for you!