where can i find UK MMR stats/data- what are the chances?

[gwendy]

hello- this seems the right place to ask: where can i find UK data on vaccinations, specifically related to MMR eg how many unvaccinated children died of measles, mumps & rubella in UK last year; how many unvaccinated children had serious complications after contracting measles, mumps or rubella in the UK last year etc.

my 2-year old has not had the MMR [yet] mostly because i think there is something quite creepy & horrid about injecting ones healthy child with an unholy mixture of bacteria, god-know-what chemicals, animal bits & pieces, formaldehyde etc etc and for what? [not interested in herd mentality immunity argument] what exactly are the stats: are the chances of my baby dying from measles more or less than him being struck by lightning or being savaged by a dog? i?m not interested in the WHO stats, or global figures citing third-world countries, but only about the UK, where we live. i need some perspective on vaccination as the pressure i?m starting to get/feel from GP, grandparents, husband is making me doubt myself: are measles, mumps & rubella really, actually such killer diseases in the UK these days? is it worth my time worrying about these illnesses, or would my time be better spent wringing my hands over street drugs & smoking? :)

ps. he had all his other vaccinations- delayed- husband scooped him up & took him- no ?side-effects? to date, well that we can outwardly see.

pps. also i didn?t want him to have the MMR as he has an inherently weak chest- have been told twice by GP he has asthma when i took him in for a chesty cough. did not agree AT ALL with this diagnosis & treated his cough using alternative medicine/common sense. we have severe chest complaints in our family history & eczema & i have read numerous stories about MMR being the trigger for such complaints

thanks in advance- no preachy preaching pls- i need to understand the stats & make my own decision.

would welcome similar stories & advise, thank you g x

I'm a nurse that immunises babies and not sure where you would get the stats you are after....but I do remember from my training that research has proved there is no higher incidence of Autism in children that have had the MMR than those that haven't.
If that helps!

according to hpa advice, yes, rubella is notifiable, kalskirata. sounds like your gp was as interested in going through the proper channels as mine was!

Not really - I'd like to see actual data on the long term health outcomes for large cohorts of vaxed/unvaxed children. How many of each group caught how many of the diseases, hospital admissions for each group, allergies, other illnesses etc etc.

I don't think such data exists. I'd happily volunteer my DCs to be studied if anyone ever wanted to collate it though.

quite silverfrog. Years back dd1 had measles (the two boys didnt catch it) and again the GP said something about a cheek or saliva kit but nothing ever showed up.
Same with whooping cough although I did get a swab taken last year and it was whooping cough. It depends on the GP. They are just as bad at reporting vaccine reactions too.
And even if you tell the receptionist your child either has no immune system or has something infectious you get parked in the main waiting room. Its the same at children's A&E. Kids with Noro puking next to someone with a broken toe or in dd's cas, child with Noro puking into bowl while dd was in waiting room with penumonia on Oxygen and a monitor as the cubicles were al full.
I dread some sort of zombie apocalypse virus or super flu. Lax practices means it would be out of control in a week.

Yes, the under diagnosing/ misdiagnosing is v interesting. There is that measles outbreak in Liverpool at the minute which I think means doctors are more on the look out for it and will probably diagnose more cases - particularly in those that are unvaccinated/partially vaccinated.

"propagated in chick embryo cell culture"

That means it is grown in fertilized eggs - as are a lot of vaccines. Saying the vacine contains chick embryo is like saying carrots and potatoes contain soil.

The chances of an unvavcinated child catching the disease will rise the more unvaccinated children there are. As will a vaccinated child's chances

why would a vaccinated child catch it even if it was raging around them?

Kal, because vaccines aren't 100% effective so vaccinated children can still contract it.

Sashh If I plant carrot seeds in contaminated ground, it would not be safe to eat the carrots that grew. So, how accurate is it to say that if X is grown on or in Y, that there is nothing of Y in X?

There is no embryo (chicken, human or bovine) in the MMR. That cannot be so difficult to understand?

I think it's important to look at all long term effects of MMR diseases too ,it's not just death. All sorts of brain damage can happen from measles, I've read incidence of up to 25% with brain damage, and even if you discount that statistic, measles is just a miserable experience. I read an account of children enduring measles on here from a vehement anti-vaxer & no way I would risk putting my children thru that without a huge amount of thought.

From www.bbc.co.uk/health/physical_health/conditions/measles2.shtml

... complications involving the nervous system occur in fewer than one in 1,000 cases... Encephalitis or inflammation of the brain may develop a few days after the rash has appeared, and a quarter of those who get this complication will be left with brain damage.

So, it's 25% of less than 1 in 1000, not 25% overall. Just to clear that up.

Tabitha8

Soil IS contaminated, it contains all sorts of stuff you would not want to eat such as fertiliser - some of which is chemical and can be used to make bombs. Some is natural such as bird poo.

I have yet to cut a carrot and find bird poo inside.

That's right, SASHH, so you wouldn't want to eat carrots grown in contaminated land (contaminated with something harmful to us).
Now, back to the MMR
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1314715/pdf/14601358.pdf
under "Discussion" on the first page.

under discussion on the first page it tells us that there is a "tiny amount of egg protein" is left in the MMR - which means: no embryo. And then it tells us that fear from allergic reaction leads to exclusion of kids from vaccination who could very well be vaccinated and leaves those children vulnerable. Thank you for the link - precisely what I have been saying!

Tabitha

Are eggs toxins? If you have an alergy then I supose they are.

And as I said soil is contaminated with stuff that's harmfull to us, stuff that can kill us. Oh and dihydrogen oxide is present in carrots, I still eat them www.dhmo.org/facts.html

As the report says, an allergy to eggs isn't a reason not to have the MMR.
So, I was right when I said that, if X is grown in or on Y, there will be something of Y in X?

No you are not right, I don't understand your reasoning at all.

Did you ever grow cress as a child - grown on cotton wool?

Have you ever baked a cake? When the cake was cooked and ready to eat how much of the cake tin was in the cake?

That is a case study of a single child, with alergies, who did not have MMR but did get measels, needed to be admitted to hospital and has ended up with arthritis at the grand old age of 7. That was in 2003.

The authors of the paper advise vaccination but with monitoring in certain groups.

If our plastic food containers have BPA in them, the BPA leeches into our food.
If I cook in an aluminium saucepan, the aluminium leeches into the food.