How do I find out whether a Surgeon's experienced / right for a particular op?

[smee]

Posted this earlier in Chat, but got no replies so am trying here instead.

My Dad has to have an operation to clear a major artery. I have googled his surgeon, but all I can find is the year he qualified. I'd like to find out how experienced he is in the type of surgery as it carries risks. Any ideas??

is this private surgery?

Unless it's private I don't think you have much choice TBH.
If it is private, could you have a pre consultation with him to ask questions?

It's NHS. I think it's probably okay, as it's at a top teaching hospital, but it's a potentially risky procedure and I want to make sure he's not getting some numptie or something. I know the Surgeon's a Vascular Consultant, but beyond that can't find anything.

Can you try the Dr Foster website?

D

Have you tried googling his CV or biography, or any articles?

I'd second Dr Foster.

Ask him. When did you qualify? How many of these operations have you done? With what success? What proportion of your workload is this procedure? Etc. If he is a vascular consultant then he should be well trained and be up to date with latest stuff.

I always google. Amamzing what comes up. or Dr Foster. Or i think there is also a Good Surgeon guide and there def. is a Specialists' Guide.

www.specialistinfo.com

You have to register for that site, but I don't think there is a fee.

You can ask for referrals to another consultant under the NHS - but in an NHS teaching hospital you should be getting the best.

Just ask him how often he has carried out this particular procedure.

"I want to make sure he's not getting some numptie or something"
Whilst I appreciate you are concerned about your dad's op, do you realise how many years of training it takes to become a vascular consultant? They don't generally employ numpties as I'm sure you need at least a few a-levels to be a Dr nowadays...

ohmeohmy has some good advice.

I've tried Dr Foster but all it gets me is the year he qualified and what hospital he does his private practice at. Interestingly the private hospital does do the op my dad's having, but he doesn't do it. The private ops he does are much simpler, so for example removing benign skin lesions.

amelia, thanks for that link. I've just gone there. You have to pay £2.99 for access for an hour, but really all it gives you is date they qualified and where. what they specialise in and which hospitals they work at.

Maybe ohmeohmy's right and I just have to be bold and phone and ask..

box that sarcastic reply is not very helpful if you don't mind me saying. I was the one who suggested to the OP on a different thread that the success of this operation has been shown to be experience/expertise linked as it is microsurgery on a major artery.

My mum had the same op almost 5 years ago, and both she and us- her family- only agreed to her going ahead with it because she was in the hands of a surgeon who is one of a handful in the world who are VERY skilled at this op and pioneered it- and he happens to be NHS.

I think it is quite a reasonable thing to ask- and TB if you knew anything about ops you would know that their success depends hugely on who does it. having passed the exams is not guarantee of a good result!

box, yes I do realise, but I know a few surgeons as have had many dealings with them myself. Sadly there's a few who are not especially fit for purpose though I agree the majority are totally fantastic. Thing is, I only have one dad and would kick myself if the worst happened and then I found out the Surgeon was new to the procedure or had a bad record. Seems a reasonable position I'd have thought?

Thanks Blu. I think I'll call his secretary and see if I can speak to him or ask them for the stats.

Ooh ta Amelia. Nice to see you again. I'm still trying to find out why some surgeons do the op under local and others go for General.

I wasn't being sarcastic, just pointing out that "I want to make sure he's not getting some numptie or something" is a bit of an insult to the medical profession. A less-experienced surgeon may not be your preference, ok, I get that. But that wouldn't make them a 'numptie'!

tsk, box it was turn of phrase in a colloquial question that's all. Most Surgeons are fantastic I agree. I totally respect what they do and how incredibly skilled they have to be to become a Surgeon. Still there are always a few who aren't so good in any profession.

Spurious anecdote alert: I went out with a Surgeon many moons ago and he was most definitely a numptie.

I am sure that some time ago, there was a call for an easily accessible record of surgeon's successes and how often they did certain operations.

Box there is a difference- my own GP suggested Gynae A over Gynae B over 20 years ago, saying that Gynae B didn't do many of those ops and he wouldn't want them let loose on him if he was a woman.

I think you are being a bit pedantic Box over language- splitting hairs.

Smee have you tired googling things like "My surgeon's record" or "How to rate your surgeon"? There may be some stats.

Totallyagree box.
I know many surgeons. None are numpties.

A record of surgeons' successes is unworkable because the really experienced surgeons attract the most difficult cases.

A record of surgeons' successes is unworkable because the really experienced surgeons attract the most difficult cases.

This may be true but you are making an illogical assumption.

Just because something is more difficult does not mean that there will not be a success and failure rate.

The op this OP's father is having is not "difficult" but it is microsurgery. How often someone has done this- and not lost a patient- is relevant.

OP when I was researching for my mum's op, I read a lot about the operation. You might find that helpful because it gives you the success rates and I am pretty sure it mentions surgeon's experience in doing the op as a factor.

Not sure this helps, but wanted to defend your question re. experience over inexpereince- it's a no brainer really.
Have we got lots of offended surgeons here?

no , just people pointing out it is unhelpful and insulting to suggest some surgeons are numpties.

I'm not making ANY assumptions.

I'm pointing out (logically ) that you cannot draw up league tables for surgeons' success rates. They would be totally meaningless as there are too many other variables.

there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to find out how experienced a surgeon is in a particular procedure.

The proposed surgeon is a consultant in vascular surgery. To want to check out he is not a " numptie or something" is insulting .

lanphil what's your problem? You seem to be reacting to the use of the word "numptie" in such a way that is excessive. It was a throw away phrase- meaning the surgeon might not to top notch.

Do you always take language so literally and are so picky over things like this?

This op is not done by a vascular surgeon anyway.
It is neurosurgery.

If you are unwilling to accept that there are good, average and poor surgeons who have different success with their patients, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

It's a bit like saying there are no good, average or bad teachers- and that th best ones always get the troublesome/less able pupils, and therefore can't always get good results.

What happens in reality is that a better teacher would still get better results with troublesome or less able pupils than a poor teacher. ( teaching was my former profession.)

Blimey isn't it weird how people jump in like this. Thanks amelia for wading in. Landphil, as I said to Box of course I respect Surgeons, etc, etc. In fact I explained that quite emphatically before you posted, so why you felt the need to post I haven't a clue. As Amelia's so nicely pointed out it was a throw away phrase and pretty obviously so.

Having said that, I don't get this thing you and Box go on about 'respect'. I doubt you'd be saying it if I was trying to find out about a nurse or a teacher, so can only assume you think Surgeons are demi-gods or something. They are not. Imo, no profession should be revered or elicit total trust. Yes of course Surgeons are bright people who have had to work hard to get to where they are, but amidst that there are still a few not so good ones. I had major surgery last year and was warned v. discretely by a doctor who happens to know a friend of mine, to avoid Mr A as he'd got such a terrible record.

Also, whenever you're having surgery there are quite often different approaches and choices to be made. With my dad I think he could go to a Neurosurgeon or to a Vascular specialist. He could have the same procedure with either and could have local or general anaesthesia dependent on the individual Surgeon's preference. My Dad's in his 70's and a General Anaesthetic's no small thing. If a Surgeon's going to choose that for him but there's an alternative, I want to know why. Wouldn't you??

Anyway, enough of this. Surely a healthy level of research before putting my dear dad's life in anyone's hands is basic common sense. If something did go wrong, I don't want to look back and think if only I'd realised say that this Surgeon is new to this procedure or that they had a very high mortality rate.

Have yu done any research about the actual operation? I would encourage you to look at that too for peace of mind.

Also consider your dads health pre operative, as this will have major implications to recovery and mortality.

If you are not happy with the surgeons experience/reputaion/mortality rates, you will need to look into alternative experts, that may mean travelling a long way, is your dad and other visiting realtives prepared for this?
If he is far away, have you considered that if things go wrong, it makes life very very distressing and difficult trying to be with a family member in hospital far away.

I suppose while we have always been a very accepting society where Drs & surgeons are concerned..a culture of looking at surgeons as God like creatures, it is now reality, people can and do question and have a choice.

Thats not a bad thing is it. There ARE bad surgeons out there, definitely, but i worry that sometimes the choice offers more problems.

OP good on you for asking this, of course you have to be confident inthe person who could potentially change your dads life forever. I hoep that you fond the info that you need.